Comment on Humans are part of the ecosystem.

• fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Yes, surprised at these comments considering how much this stuff is some of the current hot topics in research.

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  • Krauerking@lemy.lol ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Your post really called out all the “smart” people who have decided on a form of fascism to appeal to their idea of how to fix the world.

    They won’t change their mind cause they want less people and they want to think it fixes stuff without having to read a study about it. They liked it during covid when there were less people to interact with I think and had comfort in wealth to not have to suffer the consequences and now just aim for it.

    Good post. Love the resources.

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  • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Some people have just “never seen” fascism. Shrug.

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  • Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The problem is Discrediting by Association. Any meaningful, impactful movement that challe ges the growth paradigm and threatens profiteers is disingenuously categorized as ecofascist.

    Reddit/r/collapse wouldn’t talk about population at all for years because of the knee-jerk reaction to lump it in with eugenics and genocide. They grew up and now it is carefully moderated and discussed well. It seems Lemmy ain’t there yet.

    If you are an ecology dude like me you remember I=PAT. How can we discuss solutions when we self censor ethical and moral discussions around the P pillar.

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• Oppopity@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It has been, for example, an influence in several right extreme terror attacks (notably the Christchurch, NZ mass shooting in 2019 comes to mind, where the murderer explicitly described himself as such in his manifesto).

  “Michelle Chan, vice president of programs for Friends of the Earth, said, “The key thing to understand here is that ecofascism is more an expression of white supremacy than it is an expression of environmentalism.””

  just because it has ‘eco’ in the name doesn’t mean these people actually care about the environment, it’s all aesthetics.

  In other words, it isn’t an ideology.

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  • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Something doesn’t have to be correct or honest to be an ideology. It’s a shared doctrine among a significant part of the far right that “protection of the environment” is their purported motivation for exterminating undesirables. That’s absolutely an ideology, even if they’re wrong about it’s effects or even dishonest about it. I don’t believe it’s all said cynically and knowingly either, and I don’t think that Michelle Chan, in that quite accurate quote, is saying that they never believe in the stories they’re telling themselves about it. Just that the deeper cause for their actions is actually white supremacy. It would be like saying a religious ideology wasn’t an ideology just because it’s motivations are not the actual existence of some supernatural entirety but instead cultural forces, bonding, the comfort of rituals etc., and I don’t think that makes much sense.

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    • Oppopity@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      White supremacy is the ideology.

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      • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Sure, that’s the overarching category. It is a subtype of that.

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• LibertyLizard@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Well first was this guy’s ideology really distinct or is he just a fascist who talks about environmental issues as a post-hoc justification to make his objectively deranged actions seem more reasonable?

  But I didn’t mean there are no singular eco-fascists anywhere on earth. There are 8 billion people on the planet so I could make up a mad lib ideology and chances are it’s similar to what someone somewhere believes. But I’ve never met one to my knowledge, not even online. There’s no organized push for this or political power behind it. The vast majority of fascists don’t give a shit about the environment and the vast majority of environmentalists oppose fascism. So the only time I see it mentioned is when people get criticized for discussing the impacts of human population.

  I understand why it’s a touchy subject. Past racist policies used overpopulation as a justification for crimes against humanity. But that the human impact on the earth is proportional to our population is just a fact, and it doesn’t make you a fascist to acknowledge that. You’re only a fascist if you think that fact gives you a right to brutalize people, and, as I’ve said, I just don’t hear this from any organized or popular thinkers.

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  • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    And if he’s just a fascist I don’t think he need to take his justifications seriously by giving him a newly named ideology.

    Giving an important branch of fascist ideas a name doesn’t “take his justifications seriously” in any sense of condoning them. It’s also not newly named, but been discussed in academic studies of far right tendencies for decades, at least since the 60s. It’s a useful category for describing a set of ideas which have substantial influence.

    But I’ve never met one to my knowledge, not even online.

    There are probably lots of ideologies you don’t hear about all the time. Instead of just rejecting their existence with a total lack of curiosity you could instead read about them. At least start with the Wikipedia page…

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    • fossilesque@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      en.wikipedia.org/…/List_of_political_ideologies

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