Okay but the tree is still trans.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
đ¤ Being trans has to do with gender identity, not sex. The whole foundation of transgenderism as a concept is that sex and gender identity are independent elements of a person. So as a corollary (I think, havenât used that word in a while lol), no non-sapient creature can ever be trans, because you need consciousness to have a gender identity in the first place.
Fedizen@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
ada@piefed.blahaj.zone â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
Not so much.
Sex and gender are distinct elements. So whilst theyâre not the same thing, they do interact with each other and influence each other to some extent or another. If they didnât, then the world wouldnât be full of people whose gender and sex are in alignment. For that matter, if they didnât, we wouldnât even understand the concept of sex and gender being in alignment.
Also, âtransgenderismâ is a term popular with transphobes, because it frames trans people as a belief/ideology, rather than acknowledging their identity.
no non-sapient creature can ever be trans, because you need consciousness to have a gender identity in the first place.
But for all of that, strictly speaking, this is true.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
Also, âtransgenderismâ is a term popular with transphobes, because it frames trans people as a belief/ideology, rather than acknowledging their identity.
What am I supposed to call it, when talking about this as a concept, outside of referring to a specific person. Transgendericity? Transgenderology?
Throw me a bone here, donât just insinuate Iâm a transphobe just because I casually tossed âismâ onto the end of a word to noun-ify it in a sentence, without even offering a correction.
ada@piefed.blahaj.zone â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
[deleted]damnedfurry@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
When youâre talking about gay folk and same sex attraction conceptually, you donât call it âhomosexualismâ or âgayologyâ. You would use the term homosexuality or same sex attraction.
Okay, so if I want a single word, âtransgenderalityâ? That really just sounds bizarre, I have to say. Not to mention Iâve never seen any person talking about trans issues ever say/write that.
The issue is explicitly the âismâ. The -ism suffix is used to denote political and ideological beliefs
Thatâs only one way that suffix is used, and itâs assumption on your part that when you see that suffix, that thatâs the way itâs being used. In other words, I think you should allow for the possibility that it ainât that deep. Was it not obvious from the context of what/how I was writing that I wasnât coming from a transphobic place?
-ism is used for all sorts of nouns that simply describe a state of being (e.g. autism, alcoholism, absenteeism), and thatâs all I aimed for. And from what you said in your comment, it seems like this is uncharted territory, if thereâs no actual single word term regularly employed for this particular state of beingâall of your examples are multiple words.
P.S. By the way, I donât really care if something inherently benign is popular among shitty peopleâin my opinion, all the more reason to take it away from them, by using it benignly more often than they use it pejoratively. It was successfully done with âqueerâ, I say keep that train running!
dvoraqs@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
I think you could say part of oneâs identity exists outside of the person. Their self-identity should be respected and often will align with what they project outwards, but thatâs where people get confused about a person and then stubborn ones get fed up with the whole idea.
Anyway, in this case since the tree lacks sentience, it wouldnât have an internalized gender that we could know, but we can see that its sexual characteristics have changed and give it a transexual label. The trans label can cover both.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
I think you could say part of oneâs identity exists outside of the person.
That doesnât really make sense to me. It would imply that some part of who you are is defined by outside perception, and I definitely donât agree with that, especially considering that there are an indefinite number of outside perspectives, and some number of those perspectives could definitely be mutually exclusive with others, making it impossible for them both to be correct.
Simple analogy: if a triangle is viewed âface-onâ by one person and directly âedge-onâ by another, the former will perceive it as a triangle, and the latter, as a line. Something canât be a line and a triangle simultaneously, so how can these outside perspectives both be any part of what defines the identity of that object?
chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
Every person who knows you has a concept of you in their minds. This is a part of your identity which you donât have direct control over, you can only negotiate with them over that.
This concept is intuitively known by everyone. Itâs why people are negatively affected when others misgender them.
Itâs also true in a formal sense. Part of your identity exists in the formal documents and information about you. This is the part that is vulnerable to identity theft which is painful in ways beyond the financial losses people incur as victims of this crime. Having to prove you are who you say you are is extremely exhausting and traumatizing to deal with despite essentially consisting of a bunch of paperwork and phone calls.
damnedfurry@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
Every person who knows you has a concept of you in their minds.
Yes, of course.
This is a part of your identity
I donât agree with calling that concept âidentityâ. Others âconcept of youâ is just that, their idea of you. That does not define you, in any way.
Itâs why people are negatively affected when others misgender them.
Actually, I think this bolsters my point, not yours. The whole reason being misgendered is a negative experience is because that personâs âconcept of youâ is wrong. They see you that way, but that is not the way you are. Your identity comes from you, and you alone.
In the end, itâs obvious we have different definitions of âidentityâ and thatâs what our disagreement is rooted in. I define identity as the sum of what comprises oneâs sense of self.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world â¨1⊠â¨day⊠ago
if consciousness is imperative for gender. do sleeping people loose their gender?
Naptime is trans erasure đ
io@piefed.blahaj.zone â¨23⊠â¨hours⊠ago
everyone is agender atleast once a day /s