Comment on The recent Steam censorship debacle actually sort of opened me up to adult games.
tomenzgg@midwest.social 4 weeks ago
Not directly to your point but your overall experience just reminds me: we really lose something when the sexual liberation movement were largely erased. People so often dismiss it because we’re conditioned to dismiss taking sex seriously (outside of a very narrow and specific context) but there’s a lot we lose from that.
Was it erased? We are more comfortable with porn than ever (which I wouldn’t say is okay, but definitely not prudish), and after the jews, the biggest boogie man out there is the gender lobby.
I say we’re in the next phase, and moderators (Visa, Mastercard) need to buckle up for what’s coming.
We are more comfortable with porn than ever
Are we? No-Nut November has only recently dipped in the general consciousness and goon is currently tending as a pejorative. I think we’re comfortable with pushing the boundaries and with nodding and winking towards it but outright normalization has a fierce backlash.
But part of what the sex. lib. movement was about was both normalization and healthy interaction with sex, not just sexual content being prevalent. There’s plenty of unhealthy ideas and performances that the mainstream porn industry perpetuates, much of it relying on satisfying a normative and patriarchal outlook; feminist porn, for example, was/is a much more sex. lib. approach to porn (from giving women more active participation in the sex portrayed (rather than just the receptive of it) to also having the performers express their emotions more (even if minimally) and how the sex they were having made them feel).
These goals are much more in line with the emotional experience OP was describing, where it’s not just sexual content but a more healthy engagement with that sexual content as well, such as experiencing emotions and attachment. That’s part of why OP’s descriptions reminded me of it.
Mainstream porn, driven by capitalism (which isn’t to say all of us aren’t in some degree, even indie creators; sadly, that’s just the reality, right now), doesn’t care about these things.
And sex. lib. has a distinct history and activism, much of intertwined with gay liberation and…I think most people don’t know that or, like, the battles that were fought for information about safe sex, etc. I mean, it’s not unique (most people aren’t aware about disability history, for example, or events like the Capital Crawl) but it’s still deeply unfortunate.
I do appreciate the time and effort you put into the comment, but I am not arguing against what you are saying.
Since Kinsey &co and the summer of love, the movement didn’t evaporate, it perforated society and mutated. I don’t think I’d be going too far by stating, that the sexual revolution couldn’t have happened without the suffragettes. I see the queer movement as a spearhead in the same direction.
I only had qualm with you saying anything has been undone (sorry if I’m paraphrasing). Yeah, using ‘woke’ as a pejorative for anyone craving progress is a thing now, but that doesn’t mean most of us want nothing more than to love each other freely.
Mmm, I get what you mean. So often, I find myself in conversations (not ours but in general) that have certain presumptions that have been addressed by movements such as these that I feel like there’s this gap in knowledge that shouldn’t really exist but…
I think your point’s a fair argument, though; I’d certainly prefer that, at the very least.
vithigar@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
Tycho, of Penny Arcade, actually had some words on this subject around the time the PC version of Stellar Blade came out and people were up in arms about it. I’ll quote it here because I think it’s a good passage.
It sort of mirrors my own experience (minus the evangelical upbringing). I definitely recall a period of general sex-positivity that has now come around some strange turn whereby the very same voices are admonishing people for daring to enjoy sexy things.
It’s very strange.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
It’s because both sides were always divided on sex. The “beer, titties, and jesus” crowd and the anti porn feminists had been the lesser voices of their side for a while. But in the fallout of the sexual revolution, in the 70s and 80s second wave feminism developed a really anti sex stance, especially towards deviant types of sex. This was the feminist sex wars, and its the era of a lot of the more batshit bits. But it did begin with reasonable criticism. There was fighting back however, from lesbian feminist sadomasochism groups like Samois to owned porn cooperatives where radical ideas wete tried like having the entire crew be naked so the performers weren’t the only ones exposed.
People like to blame third wave feminism for the swing back, and I disagree. The third wave was the movement born of the critiques of the second wave, and the renewed push for sexual liberation in the 90s ans 00s was quintessentially third wave. And it got far, it did a lot, and it also left us with a lot to criticize. Whether it’s media criticism like Sarkeesian was harassed for daring to do, or it’s the unfortunately common stories of women being pressured into sex acts they don’t want with feminist language critiques had been mounting in the early 10s.
The theoretical fourth wave is often called twitter feminism, and i think it’s best to consider that the first real thing it did that impacted anything was the metoo movement. I believe metoo was a good thing. It’s next to the Arab spring as among the few things Twitter ever did that are good. But it and the late third wave criticisms gave room for the sex negative side to return to prominence. That’s where we are now, but I dont think it will last.
Because I think we need to remember that while there is an internal back and forth, there’s also the realpolitik of the fact that you can pull horny people if nobody else does. A chunk of gamergate is straight up that. Shining feminist media critiques through the worst possible lens to horny boys and men. Anyways the right has dropped their horny-prude coalition recently and is all in on prude, which is coinciding with chunks of the left getting tired of the dominant position of our prudes.
Anyways free the nipple, and what 20 consenting adults do behind closed doors is their right to do.
PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 weeks ago
Since you seem knowledgeable, maybe I’ll bug you about something I’ve wondered about?
Did you notice a significant (huge by my measure) increase in attempts at polyamory for a period of time, and if so, any comments on how that fits into your timeline overview above? Some of your thoughts sound like they may point to this and other phenomena but I certainly don’t want to put words in your mouth.
Anecdotally, it seems to me like I watched a huge chunk of my (significantly) younger sister’s generation get themselves into plural relationships, then realize after a year or two of various attempts (often including some serious abuse) that actually they didn’t like that idea at all.
And don’t get me wrong, I absolutely encourage people to try what they are curious about, it’s a tragedy to spend a life never exploring what you might like. But that phenomena with polyamory / plural relationships in particular stuck out to me, largely because many of the people I saw try it had never previously indicated even remote interest in similar, some were fairly jealous toward their partners actually. It felt like a strange societal motivation, some kind of soft cultural pressure among peers, to go for it. And I personally never witnessed a positive outcome, either (which is not me saying that no one should live that way if they enjoy it, or that no one can find it genuinely fulfilling, healthy, and preferable).
I guess more than anything else I was just struck by what felt like a wave in popularity, followed by an accompanying wave of “oh, nah fuck that actually”. Any thoughts?
(Disclaimer: this can be a thorny topic, anyone should feel free to correct anything I’ve misrepresented, misunderstood, or just been unkind about, I’m not a jerk on purpose usually).
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Kinda, I’m actually polyamorous myself and most of my social circle still is. But I’ve heard of what you described. In my circles it’s been a lot more women lead and queer though. I think a lot of people jumped in without breaking their mental monogamy as well. Polyamory can be difficult, and for a lot of people especially those who jump in without thinking or who began their relationship monogamous it can be a spectacular shitshow, much like many relationships where incompatible desires are present or where people go in without knowing how to do it well.
I once had a relationship that I think a lot of my ex’s friends probably see as exactly like you described. We began monogamous, it was my first relationship and it was in the mid 10s, and within a year I realized monogamy wasn’t for me. So we opened up, then did full poly, got engaged, and she realized she couldn’t do poly. She pressured me into monogamy (I had been willing to call it quits) and I hated it. It was an ugly breakup that she likely blames on me pressuring her into polyamory. Funny enough a few months after the breakup when I wasn’t looking for anything serious I met someone else who’d recently had a breakup over wanting to stay poly, and we’re happily married with a clear mutual understanding that neither of us is open to closing the relationship.
nightlily@leminal.space 4 weeks ago
It has taken me nearly 30 years to undo that programming and it still affects me. The puriteens scare me.