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TheRealKuni@piefed.social ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

The US is all about realpolitik, and begins to make a lot more sense when you look at everything through a Kissinger-shaped lens (rest in piss, you evil bastard). We pretend to be ideological so our citizenry can feel good about ourselves, but the way the nation operates is purely pragmatic. Look no further than Israel-Palestine and how buddy-buddy we are with Saudi Arabia for modern examples. Even our support of Ukraine, while overlapping with an ethical imperative, is driven primarily by the interests of NATO and the relatively inexpensive degradation of Russia’s military and political standing we can participate in. We only give a shit about “human rights” when it benefits us.

Operation Paperclip was pragmatism. It creates a sense of cognitive dissonance when we try to hold in our minds that we brought Nazi scientists over and the idea that we’re “the good guys” and fought for “justice,” so our brains try to reduce that cognitive dissonance by saying those scientists weren’t behind any of the evils of the Nazis. They were, obviously. That didn’t matter to our government, but they kept the operation classified for a reason.

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TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

The US is all about realpolitik

Not to excuse the US’s history of foreign diplomacy, but I think it would be naive to believe that there exists any major power who doesn’t treat geopolitics with the same level of pragmatism.

The Soviets hated the Nazi even more than the US did and yet they still had their own version of paperclip. Operation Osoaviakhim brought almost double the number of Nazi scientists into the Soviet Union.

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- azi@mander.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Osoviakhim was somewhat more ideologically consistent than Paperclip. The scientists weren’t invited to the USSR with promises of cushy jobs and immunity from prosecution: they were forced from their homes, loaded onto freight trains, and made to work. It was part of the wider trend of the Allies using the forced labour of Germans as a means of war reparations.
  
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  - TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I mean, the Soviets didn’t offer them any guarantees. But I think that’s more of a byproduct of how they held leverage over the specialist, and more of a difference in how the two cultures choose to motivate employees.
    
    Despite this, the affected specialists and their families were doing well compared to citizens of the Soviet Union and the Soviet Zone, apart from the suffering of deportation and isolation. The specialists earned more than their Soviet counterparts. The scientists, technicians and skilled workers were assigned to individual projects and working groups, primarily in the areas of Aeronautics and rocket technology, nuclear research, Chemistry and Optics. The stay was given for about five years.
    
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yucandu@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The US does not currently support Ukraine or NATO, and is allied with Russia.

And when it comes to Nazi rocket scientists falling into the hands of post-WW2 America, or the USSR, I’m quite glad it was the former.

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- Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I wouldn’t say we’re allied with Russia lmfao, that’s liberal bullshit, Trump is only looking after himself and whoever gives him the most in return. Very transactional, which means we are essentially allies with whoever gives us (him) the best offer. Whether that be literal gifts or things for his “legacy”.
  
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  - yucandu@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    “liberal bullshit”
    
    is this the Trump supporter “liberal bullshit” or the Marxist “liberal bullshit”?
    
    Why did Trump tariff every country on earth except Russia?
    
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    Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Marxist lol
    
    We already do zero trade with Russia right? (I haven’t checked but we sanctioned the shit out of them right lmao)
    
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- TheRealKuni@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I suppose with regard to Ukraine I should have said “our support was.”
  
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- jorge@lemmygrad.ml ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You think the USA is morally superior to the former USSR?
  
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