Comment on A real question about trans athletes and records

Nougat@fedia.io ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

• damnedfurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  The fact that the University of Pennsylvania swimmer [Lia Thomas] soared from a mid-500s ranking (554th in the 200 freestyle; all divisions) in men’s competition to one of the top-ranked swimmers in women’s competition tells the story

  In the 100 freestyle, Thomas’ best time prior to her transition was 47.15. At the NCAA Championships, she posted a prelims time in the event of 47.37. That time reflects minimal mitigation of her male-puberty advantage.

  During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. As her career at Penn wrapped, she moved to fifth, first and eighth in those respective events on the women’s deck.

  It may not be an issue to you, but it’s an issue to every woman whose ranking is lower as a result. I imagine it especially hurts if you’re pushed out of first place in that way.

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  • EponymousBosh@awful.systems ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Wow, the 200m freestyle, the 500m freestyle, and the 1650m freestyle, huh? Did she ever compete in anything else, or were those numbers perhaps cherry-picked to make the situation look more dramatic than it actually is? Because if you look at her results holistically, she’s a very good swimmer, but she’s clearly not dominating 100% of the time the way she’s been portrayed.

    At the NCAA competition where Thomas won one (1) race that conservatives cried and shit their pants over, a cis woman named Kate Douglass set 18 new records. Lia Thomas set zero new records. And crunching the rest of the numbers bears this out: she was a good swimmer before and after transition, but she’s not some unbeatable powerhouse that cis women have no chance at winning against.

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    • arcterus@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      It should also be noted that a college athlete's times and rankings would presumably improve every year. Freshmen competing against seniors are just less likely to win (in most sports at least). IIRC I saw an analysis of her rankings that indicated the improvement was within normal bounds for year-over-year improvement.

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      • FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        No one goes from 500th to 1st year over year lol.

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    • damnedfurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      were those numbers perhaps cherry-picked to make the situation look more dramatic than it actually is?

      If anyone can go from 554th to 5th in any sport/event just by competing among the other sex, nothing else changing, then that obviously indicates something. You can’t handwave that away.

      Her personal 100m freestyle time dropping less than a quarter of a second post-transition is honestly a bigger indicator that transition is not making a substantial difference, because that angle completely removes the ‘chance’ element in your opponents being different people.

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  • Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It may not be an issue to you, but it's an issue to every woman whose ranking is lower as a result.

    Really? "Every"? You asked every single one of them, did you? Or are you just talking out your arse on the behalf of hundreds of people you don't even know?

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    • damnedfurry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The very fact that their ranking is lower than what it should be is an issue in and of itself, your disingenuous mockery notwithstanding.

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      • Walk_blesseD@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        But they're placed exactly where they should be? If they should be placed higher, that's where they'd be… seems like you're the one getting mad over a skill issue on other people's behalf tbh. It's weird.

        You're acting as though Lia Thomas didn't have every right to compete as she did, despite fulfilling all the eligibility criteria that were in place at the time, so your argument at this stage seems equally applicable to all the cis women who outperformed her, too, but you're not whining for the benefit of all the poor womanses that were denied the opportunity to place higher than they did by them, are you?

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      • Ceedoestrees@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        Former competitive swimmer here. I’m fine with it.

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