@Snorf we would be a lot closer to peace if we could get rid of the arms dealers.
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Snorf@reddthat.com 1 year agoBut what does an end to all of this actually look like? I still remember when Rabin and Arrafat were awarded Nobel peace prizes because they thought Bill Clinton solved peace in the Middle East.
Can there be peace? Or just this eternal back and forth bullshit?
livus@kbin.social 1 year ago
redballooon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
There can be peace only if everyone accepts that everyone else wants to live their life, too. That’s nowhere to be seen, in the greater region of the Middle East.
Magnetar@feddit.de 1 year ago
The whole thing is a horrible mix of religious, historical, political and economical interlocking conflicts. Can there be peace? I have no idea.
regnskog@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Oh but we can definitely sketch something, for sure.
redballooon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Your second bullet point implies that Israel won’t exist at a point of “peace”.
Teodomo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I didn’t took it to mean “Israel will be erased” but “Israel and Palestina will be fused”. So maybe it won’t be named Israel but Israel-Palestina (kinda like Bosnia-Herzegovina) or something like that. Of course that seems impossible today but who knows, maybe there’s a timeline where that’s the name of the country 500 years into the future.
regnskog@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That depends what you mean by “Israel”. I don’t think it can be an exclusively Jewish ethnostate. That means excluding Palestinians who have equal claims to the territory and I don’t see how that can lead to anything but oppression and further cycles of violence.
But sure it can exist as a state. They just can’t do military occupation etc.
Snorf@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Is it really about the holy lands? Or mostly about land and resources?
rentar42@kbin.social 1 year ago
What it's "really" about is something that future historians can try to figure out, but in situ it's almost impossible to tell.
We can list all kinds of factors that came together when the conflict started or which factors are around while the conflict keeps going for a long time. What it's "about"? That kind of answer only really exists in games like Civilization where the answer is "because a player wanted X" or "the PC faction AI decided that the value of war exceeded the cost" ... the real world doesn't have as neat an answer.
Beware those who are sure about the "real reason": they are either ignorant of the complexities of societies and wars or they have an agenda.
And even those future historians won't be able to pinpoint a single reason for all of this (or most other wars), because it's almost always multiple factors acting together.
Imagine for a second a war that looks like it's "clearly about the aggressor getting land/resources": that might be the main reason, but maybe historical and religious factors made the war easier to "get going" for those who don't actually care about that (or the other way around: someone powerful want's to wage a religious war, but it's easier to convince the military to fight for the resources ...).
Ordoabchao@kbin.social 1 year ago
From where I sit, it's literally mostly about dirt, rocks and oil.
This is just a continuation of the crusdades from the medieval period. Let's also not forget just how strategically important Israels location is to the Western countries as it's their springboard into the middle east.
There are a lot of different factors and nuance and play, but essentially it's over religion and "holy lands".