Comment on stupid sexy apples

sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• logicbomb@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I assume this “bee-free honey” is more about veganism than about ecology.

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  • sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    that would make sense. I’m unsure of whether it’s helpful, but I forgot that goal of veganism could extend to domestic bees as well. are there any vegans who can clue me in on the thought process regarding bees?

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    • usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Honey production is not exactly exploitation free. For instance, queen bees often have their wings clipped or are intentionally killed to be replaced by another

      Moreover, honey production also out competes native/wild bee populations which hurts them. Especially since honeybees are heavily used well outside their native ranges

      We found compelling evidence that honey bee introductions indirectly decrease pollination by reducing nectar and pollen availability and competitively excluding visits from more effective native bees. In contrast, the direct impact of honey bee visits on pollination was negligible, and, if anything, negative. Honey bees were ineffective pollinators, and increasing visit quantity could not compensate for inferior visit quality

      esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/…/ecy.3939

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      • sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        oh daaammn. okay that’s what I was curious about. seems like every agriculture trade gets taken to fucked up places in order to meet the demands of industry. thanks for providing the link.

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    • bss03@infosec.pub ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      The way I had it described to me was that veganism is against the exploitation of all animals, including “stealing” honey from a hive.

      But, “vegan” is a label at least as malleable as “Christian”.

      To some people, this Foie Gras might be vegan, if they can’t find the exploitation. To others, large-scale U.S. produce might be non-vegan since it depends on exploitative labor (humans are animals) practices. To a few, mussels are vegan because there’s no mind to suffer or be exploited. To a very few, plants that show a “pain” response are non-vegan, even if that response happens over time, as long as it has a clear trigger in human interference (which is expliotation due to the “pain”), despite the complete lack of a nervous system, which humans (and other animals) use to feel pain.

      Anyway, I’m NOT a vegan, but I do try to limit my meat consumption. It just feels like the amount I used to eat isn’t really globally sustainable, and I take up too many resources in to many other ways, too.

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      • sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        ooh yeah that does sound like dumb fake concern. the relationship we have with bees is ideally pretty mutually beneficial and outside of the framework of an idea like theft. Christianity does seem like a good analoge for it. like there’s people who obviously don’t get the ethics of it beyond a aesthetic performance.

        somebody else in the comments just told me that in industrial honey farms will do things like clip the wings of queens to prevent them from moving colonies away so I can understand the concern there though. or that domestic bee colonies disrupt local wild ones which is also valid.

        I’m of the same mindset as you then. something I realized a while back is there are human ways of doing agriculture but the demands of capitalism have forced us to take the exploitation of animals and workers to insane body horror places. I don’t think I can live animal product free but I absolutely respect people who do and I’m definitely invested in changing our economy into one that doesn’t require infinite growth at the cost of all this suffering.

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  • Zerush@lemmy.ml ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    This one?

    Image

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• Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Saving “the bees” is easy, since bees in general are doing fine.

  Saving solitary wild bees the real task, and that’s much harder.

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  • sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I don’t think they are. I could have swore that the looming death of most pollinators was on the horizon.

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• LeeeroooyJeeenkiiins@hexbear.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Without looking it up I can confidently tell you that bee free honey isn’t about “avoiding ecological collapse affecting a product,” it’s about vegans giving waaaay too much of a shit about bees to the point that honey is “not vegan”

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  • sad_detective_man@leminal.space ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    i like to give people the benefit of the doubt. sure there’s a specific kind of environmentally concerned person who will create ineffectual solutions to non-problems because they either don’t actually know about the animal or they are just gritting but I try to hear it from the horse’s mouth before I assume it’s entirely unhelpful

    all I have to go on are the local beekeepers I’ve met and they’re a far different operation from what I imagine wholesale honey industry looks like

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