I think I get the gist of what you’re saying but they’re very much not arbitrary. They’re a direct manifestation of a state’s ability to exert control.
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troyunrau@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Countries and borders are an arbitrary concept created during the peace treaty of Westphalia.
Those relics belong to dead people.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
troyunrau@lemmy.ca 13 hours ago
We agree entirely.
Without the ability to exert control and therefore reinforce the definition, borders are as arbitrary as any other law. They are created by people, enforced by people, and if we change our mind then they can go away. It’s not some intrinsic property of the planet.
While I’m ranting, the definition of a relic or artifact is equally arbitrary. As well as the definition of a people. And ownership. At any point in history, these definitions will be different. Right now we’ve defined it in such a way that we’ve decided that it is socially acceptable to return relics to people who live inside geographic areas where the relics originated from. This is also arbitrary.
But as long as people, decide to exert force to reinforce this definitions, there is true as any other law.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 day ago
ebolapie@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Hot take: all world heritage artifacts should be located in the most geopolitically stable area possible
Hotter take: un peacekeepers should protect world heritage sites with weapons-free orders
pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe 23 hours ago
[deleted]Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
As an American, we should be shipping our arts out of the country before the current regime decides it’s subversive to the regime and burn it. Especially any art made by minorities, opposition or in places that might get bombed(any coastal city).
pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe 22 hours ago
And that would be for the Individual Americans to decide, or the institutions.
It wouldn’t have been plundered.
You are assuming that the artifacts such as those held in the British museum solely represent “saving culture” but they also represent the lingering colonial mindset. They weren’t taken away to preserve, they were taken as plunder. LITERALLY. There are photos of the Nigerian benins that are marked as treas
Imagine if Nigeria and other african countries invaded your country, forced you into indentured servitude, spread propoganda and took all the art/artifacts to their country and used the excuse that your president is a fascist douche turd and because of that none of you are worthy enough to handle it. You just can’t be trusted with your own art and then never returned it even after things got objectively better.
pugnaciousfarter@literature.cafe 23 hours ago
Those relics belong to dead people.
No, it belongs to a community. Does something stop belonging to a people if the original creators die? No.
That way nobody owns any land, because it belongs to the amoeba.
Returning the artifacts is meant to be a good will gesture, and a sort of a reparation (in lieu of the actual reparations) for all the horrible colonial era crimes that were propagated not more than even 100 years ago.
CybranM@feddit.nu 17 hours ago
Countries and borders are an arbitrary concept
Very Lemmy comment haha
troyunrau@lemmy.ca 14 hours ago
When I was in grad school, the philosophy of science students would egg me on with things like: “I’ll buy you a beer if you can prove the electron is real”. I’d like to think I’m carrying on their tradition in science memes.
ProvableGecko@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Countries and borders are an arbitrary concept created during the peace treaty of Westphalia.
Stealing this foolproof argument for when I apply for a UK visa to go to British Museum. Thanks!
TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Attributing modern concepts of borders to Westphalia is a Eurocentric worldview. What, you don’t think they had the concept of statehood and sovereignty in Asia for at least a few thousand years prior to this?