Comment on Anon has his way
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 5 weeks agoWell yeah, there is a cultural assumption that the more dominant or masculine partner initiate, but feminine and submissive people can resist that and when we do so we find ourselves with better odds and with better communication. It also means we’re more likely to scare off the people who are uncomfortable with us expressing our wants and needs.
I have particular experience with this as a submissive lesbian. Dominant women are often awkward about their dominance because they’re going against society’s expectations. And especially when it comes to hitting on women many fear being perceived as predatory. By merely being the one to initiate I’m able to break that barrier and display enthusiastic consent.
Ultimately I think it’s something that should be more common and that role/gender shouldn’t be a factor in who initiates
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 5 weeks ago
I’m really not sure that we’re in disagreement here. I think anyone initiating is great. I suggested ways for doms to do it that are more consistent with casual interaction than in kink communities, since there seems to be a consensus that subs in the casual scene don’t like it to be so explicit.
I’m not saying subs can’t or shouldn’t. I’m just saying that seeing as subs in more casual settings seem turned off by explicit discussion of boundaries, that it seems like a hard sell to then expect a cultural shift of them embracing being the ones to begin the conversation. If you can start that shift, amazing, but I don’t see a huge movement in that regard currently. I think it’d be ill advised for me to just tell newbie/casual doms “don’t worry have your sub be responsible for bringing up their boundaries”. I would err on the side of caution and I was just providing a suggestion for how to do that in a casual setting without ruining the mood. As I’ve said before, anyone can bring it up and everyone should bring it up.
Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
I understand that people in “casual” settings don’t generally understand kink, but the sub is the one with actual power in the dynamic and has to frame the encounter. Whereas most doms are pretty flexible in what tools is techniques they’re willing to engage in, it’s the sub’s boundaries that generally frame the encounter. Especially in “casual” scenes where it’s more likely that none of the sub’s asks are out of bounds for the dom.
Kink is about exploring fetishes in a safe way that’s enjoyable to all participants. This type of “rough sex” often including breath play isn’t as casual as most participants believe. If you’re a sub and that’s your fetish then it’s best for everyone involved to get more serious about Safe Sane Consensual sex.
It’s the same problem as 50 shades of grey where someone with a Dom/sub fetish engages in dangerously unsafe and non-consensual sex but it’s “sexy” coded in the movie. In real life the kind of guy that would break past all your boundaries and do perform violent sex acts whether you wanted it not is a violent, dangerous person. In an SSC setting, these encounters are negotiated ahead of time (and more subtly during the scene), openly and without an unbalanced power dynamic.
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 5 weeks ago
Yes, I agree that in healthy interactions subs should have the power and most doms are pretty flexible.
As I mentioned above, breath play is dangerous and imho too common considering how few people have any idea what they’re doing.
I also agree regarding 50 shades. That dynamic is unhealthy and no one should have to experience that.
What I can say after experiencing both sides of casual and less casual encounters is that if I meet someone in a non kink bar and the extent of her kink is she wants me to verbally degrade her, I’m unfortunately unlikely to get a list of things she wants to be called. I can sit her down and have a conversation about it, but that’s more likely to see her disinterested in speaking openly about it than asking something about it during the normal flow of the encounter. “Tell me how naughty you are” or whatever is more likely to illicit things she is comfortable being called than actually sitting her down to talk about it. In my experience, outside of the kink community, I’ve not seen people willing to have open and honest discussions about their kinks. In long term relationships it’s different, but if I’m taking someone home and we’re not expecting to be together for an extended period of time, I have not personally found it fruitful to attempt to invoke a paradigm shift regarding shame and power as it relates to sexuality. Maybe that’s a me issue, but I’m not sure that it can be done that fast and I’m attempting to work within that framework. I would never physically restrain someone or engage in more serious play on a one off basis without having a serious discussion about it, but I don’t think most people engaging in casual encounters go that far either.
I’m trying to meet society where it’s at, and I’m not sure what the realistic alternative is. Maybe I’m too pessimistic, but imho casual subs will continue to try to find people who will engage with them the way they desire and it will continue to put them at risk until either they or casual doms get more serious about boundaries and consent. I do not see kink community norms making it to a more casual setting any time soon, so in the meantime I can only suggest stop gap measures. I’m not seeing a lot of what I would consider realistic advice for people who find themselves in that situation. I know plenty of het women who would prefer a few rougher than expected encounters than having to sit down and verbalize their sexual desires. I can tell them to get over that, or I can suggest that people doing the harm (engaging in rough sex without consent is harm regardless of if you THINK they want it or not) take responsibility as well. Ideally we see movement on both ends, but imho the het women are not actually doing harm. They are putting themselves in situations they know have the potential to be harmful, but they aren’t DOING the harm. It their partners who are deciding the boundaries. I don’t think they are purposefully harming people, but that’s the outcome.
Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
That’s quite fair and nuanced. I’m not 100% on what you said but I think your views are well supported.
I think we differ in that you’re mentioning things that are likely to be successful in current society. Which is probably going to be the main factor in short term sexual relationships.
I’m looking at it from the perspective of qualities of a good sexual partner which is going to be more important in long term relationships for most people.
I think both views are important. I appreciate the discussion.