Comment on A delicate balance

solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

• smeg@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  This country of Lemmy?

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  • Pandantic@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    .uk

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• OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  That is not a great quote to use fyi (I mean this one here by Martin Luther - whereas the one from Carl Sagan is *fantastic* imho:-).

  I have heard an analogy in that it is like saying that the Mind is one's greatest adversary to a child learning how to swim - true, but when quoted out of the surrounding context (in this case iirc it was Reason *alone*, unaided by Faith - or something to that effect but I could be misremembering so don't take this part as... well... *gospel*, pun intended:-) really comes off super poorly. Similarly with wanting to exercise - "Mind" here does not mean merely "mind" as in mental faculties, just as "Reason" != "reason".

  Also the quote is disputed as even coming from Martin Luther himself rather than one of his students.

  More at https://randalrauser.com/2011/10/quote-others-the-way-you-would-have-them-quote-you/ in case it helps.

  Now a quote of my own (by me, from right this second): if we want to rise above the teeming unwashed masses and truly use Reason, then we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard (than those we accuse of not doing such). It's just a thought: do as you will with it.

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  • mc900ftJesus@lemy.lol ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    That’s a terrible counter argument. “Oh maybe he meant something different, you might not know the context he plainly said it in 8 different ways you just quoted”

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    • xthexder@l.sw0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      It’s certainly an argument I’ve heard a lot when talking about inconsistencies in the Bible. Usually it’s blamed on translation, missing context, or exaggerated retellings. It was written by many different people who weren’t necessarily talking to each other after all. I have a hard time taking any of it seriously.

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      • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        But not this bit of the bible. There can’t be any translation errors, missing context or exaggeration on this bit specifically because we like this bit.

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    • kryptonidas@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      In some cases context is definitely relevant, but for religion one’s it’s often:

      youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o

      Image

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    • solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      funny how apologists rarely apologize

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    • pimento64@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      “This person held this opinion”

      “There are several reasons that may be an inaccurate and reductive account of that person’s opinions and of historical events in general”

      “Okay but, for real, that’s so wishy washy bro. Context? That’s just, like, a term. How pathetic.”

      You’re making a great case for the Catholic Church burning uneducated people alive for voicing opinions.

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      • Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        You’re making a great case for the Catholic Church burning uneducated people alive for voicing opinions.

        tf?

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  • solsangraal@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    it’s incredible to me how someone can take

    Reason is a whore… never comes to the aid of spiritual things

    and turn it into some weird word salad that has some completely different meaning than what the quote literally says. because, as usual, “oUt Of CoNtExT”

    also, who cares who said it? the message is the message regardless if it came from martin luther or some rando pulled it out of their ass 10 minutes ago-- and it’s the direction this country is heading

    finally, “a higher standard” of reason-- the people i’m talking about defenestrate reason, logic, facts, evidence-- everything one would use in the process of critical thinking, in favor of faith, which literally means believing something to be true just because you want it to be. there IS NO standard there. using reason AT ALL means one is rising above them

    do as you will with whatever you want

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    • OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      *How* we know what we know is just as important as *what* we know - or arguably even more so.

      literally means believing something to be true just because you want it to be

      Exactly. We shouldn't do that.

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  • algorithmae@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    “In this moment, I am euphoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am englightened by my intelligence.”

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