Gorgritch_umie_killa

@Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone

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⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
That is an interesting perspective. A kind of standard setter position can be hard to quantify. Is it better to be in the tent or outside.

But thats really been the heart of the issue for over a decade, its a key decision that i wish the emotional barbs would give more space to, because its omportant to get right.

I’ll say the industry was put on notice during the Gillard Government over live sheep export that thjbgs needed to change, and a lot of changes seemed to be made from Austraoia’s end.

But the underlying issues after hand over i can’t see have changed much. So isuppose you could take that as a point against that case that Australias influence lifts the standards of all in this area. But thats a circumstantial point at best.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Good opinion, and it seems you agree,

My opposition to your words

~My vote doesn’t matter so you give me the lie to it

Is tackling the same notion as,

It’s for everyone; there’s a pervading notion that voting is either irrelevant, useless, or a balancing act to find the least-worst option

So you actually agree with me, you just don’t understand you do.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
No i meant consumerist.

The carelessly detached mindset that is promoted by my vote doesn’t matter so you give me the lie to it leads to a benign indolence of voters, making them just like shoppers listlessly wandering around a mall, being mildly entertained for a few moments by some trinket.

Also, i want to be clear, I’s clearly stating Mandatory voting as a first step, not an only step. Lots more could be done, someboptions are as you highlight. Lots more can be done is Aus to, we are far from as effective democratically as we could be.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah the fish farms, i wish they’d worked better than they have. Years ago they were touted as such a sustainable way of business. Its sad to see the reality never lived up to the hype.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah, there’s definitely a risk premium that can come into proceedings where decisions and their implementations are rolling through quickly, can’t think of a specific international example… oh wait, yes i can :)…, but the policy for the live export ban is super slow, predictable and with plenty of finacial supports.

One silly argument against live export that I heard some people parroting is that if Australia doesn’t do it some other country will and the standards of care for the sheep will be much lower than ours. That’s just bullshit IMO.

Even if that did happen, big if, thats happening all over the world in all kinds of areas. We can only control what we do, and attempt to set a better example where we can. It is such a bullshit, and cynical argument. As soon as i hear that, i generally start thinking the other person is debating in bad faith.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
“Forcing” by essentially hitting people on the head with Parsley isn’t exactly the same as the sentiment in your comment.

If people really don’t want to vote in Australia, they don’t vote, theres fines sure, but they’re not big, and i’d be surprised if they chase people for it.

But theres more people than you’d think who never enrolled to vote, thereby never getting a fine, and also never voting. I’s listening to a podcast, i think it was Ben Raue’s, where they demonstrated that the participation rate is actually probably lower than reported due to non-enrolled people not voting. So in percentage terms its maybe high eighties, still good… but… So the rosy picture sold by the media isn’t quite on the money.

If turnout is low then give the lie to “my vote doesn’t matter”.

This is a consumerist centric view to take. People have self regard for themselves and their immediates above others. I’m not saying some neo-lib greed is good shit, we humans can just find it difficult to see much further past our immediate priorities.

Parties, and Governments aren’t a mall filled with products for casual perusal, they’re a tool we’ve collectively come up with to deliver a greater vision for the tribe’s success in general. But these tools need feedback, and they need energy to function properly.

They only work if theres participation. If people don’t want to bother with that, then they’ll find sooner or later an even less generally amenable decision making system will guide the future of their tribe.

Its the same as the old Bread and Circuses saying, distracting the masses and suppressing their voice makes it easier to seize more control.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Australia 2025 – Wrap-up of the night⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Welp, i think you’ve convinced me on that.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Well, put it this way, whats harder?

Everybody of voting age has to vote.

Or (for example),

Number the candidates in order of most preferred. (Ranked Choice)

I think the first one is simpler to communicate than the second, and in an electoral reform decision like this simplicity of communication is very important.

But thats my point, not that IRV or MMP, et al, are uniquely hard or complicated to understand.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Australia 2025 – Wrap-up of the night⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:

The Greens’ only failure is one of PR. That Labor supporters have been so successful in their lies that even people on left-leaning Lemmy believe them.

I don’t think theres need for a conspiracy here Zag, if i’ve forgotten a concession the Greens managed to get in the Bill that went through around November time, thats just my poor memory. My bad.

As such i’d still call it a pyrrhic victory due to the amount of time wasted on a key issue the electorate wants action on.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Hahaha, i’ve heard nothing but dunks on Taylor, its been pretty funny. There’ll be a collective national groan if they select him i think.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Australia 2025 – Wrap-up of the night⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Well, i kind of said in my comment before, they made a tactical mistake last year by failingvto give themselves a way to back down from their housing policy blockage.

Their strategy, ‘to push for ever greater housing reform’ was popular, and they managed to deliver a win for themselves the first time round by securing, was it extra HAFF funding? But the second time round they didn’t have a plan b when Labor didn’t play along, that was a mistake.

So my point was they need to be more alive to the Parliamentary games they need to play.

Its a sign of their importance and success that this is now needs to be a consideration.

Next time housing comes up, they need to setvup their debate with possible off ramps, where they can still claim some success and not lead to a months long stand off, or worse cede the legislative ground to a Liberal preferred option, which tends to be bad for the Greens stated policy directions.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Australia 2025 – Wrap-up of the night⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
This is slightly wrong. Just about everything the Government does has to pass both houses, so in a way minority government is the norm for Australia because its quite rare that a sitting government gets an outright majority in both houses.

In this cases it looks like its going to be the same, majority in lower house, minority in upper house.

The thing that undermines the bargaining power of a crossbench is when the two majors team up to pass legislation, which happens often enough. Afterall we don’t want an opposition that simply opposes everything because they’re the opposition.

So the crossbench, i think in this case the key players will be the Greens, have to have a strategy but be able to change their tactics as the Parliament progresses. Their failure to not get a deal from Labor last year on housing, and subsequent inability to find a path to back down for so long, and also the lib-lab team up on electoral and funding reform early this year, showws me they haven’t mastered parliamentary tactics yet.

Viewing it from the Party of Governments perspective, i think, is easier. Its not a cross-bench they’re dealing with, its two or more paths to passing legislation thpugh both houses.

Since Labor is in power, they have the option to attempt legislation with Liberal support, or Greens support. This is where the Greens need to step up, Labor will go with the Liberals if they’re the easier party to deal with on legislation, Greens should aim to be the Partner of choice for the Government this term, this can keep legislation primarily on the progressive side of the ledger.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah, they’ve been insane all over my area as well. I struggle to remember any campaign that has been so active.

I haven’t read an argument for it that doesn’t rely in the greater part on emotion. I’ve seen very little sober argument for the negative effects of the ban.

The key argument i’ve read is it delivers the industry into an abbotoir monopoly, this is undoubtedly a problem, which is in old Economic parlance a market failure. I’m slowly going to the Mariana Mazzucato view of Economics, so i see the live export closure as an opportunity for market shaping, by the stakeholders, gov, busines individuals, farmers, involved in it.

An idea the WA Government should consider is a government owned abbotoir which can set a steady floor on the prices farmers get for the sheep. Sorry if i get a little gross hereafter. But the meat from this abbotoir doesn’t necessarily have to find a profitable buyer, but can be used to deliver high protein food to disadvantaged communities here, and internationally. Abbotoir meat purchases could constitute a part of the Australian international food aid budget, or sent out to aboriginal communities, food shelters in the city, or island communities or nations in the pacific.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah, agreed. I’s not defending their current system. I’s arguing for political bias to be taken out of a theoretical election reform process as much as possible.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Na, you need to get the people to the booths, otherwise your always pumping for turnout each election cycle.

Without mandatory voting a dissafected electorate will be more likely to not vote as their message to the politicians in a given election, than send a message by voting. In those circumstances, which the UK is finding itself in a lot! (Brexit included here.) You need to demand the populace make their voices heard.
- There is a practical reason, MMP, IRV, whatever you choose are far more complicated to explain than, ‘you must vote, or i’ll hit you over the head with some parsley.’ Mandatory voting is simple to understand, and demands voters become more engaged, which would help with further reform.
- Smaller parties have to have a path to success, a party of Government needs to be theoretically possible for them all. Genuine electoral reform would need to account for that, otherwise they’d fail to live up to the demands of democratic governance. But this is why I say as an unpopular technocrat, Starmer could be in a rare position here.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Mcgrath said that.

That was actually pretty wild for his side of politics to go that far in these times. His side of politics are fully dominated by MAGA-esque types.

He went further than what you say even, he identified himself with the Neo-libs (Reagan), and the Neo-Cons (Bush), pretty sure he even mentioned Nixon, but i can’t remember now.

Basically he identified himself with everyone from his side of Politics except the current ruling international faction, what i’ll call the Dickwads International Klan, or D.I.K.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Is that a reaction to State level politics?

Or do they just hate the Federal Libs?
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Its definitely gona be Keep the Sheep for part of it. I’m surprised it wasn’t more of an issue in the end.

A friend, (not a farmer), at the start of the WA election campaign was getting hot under the collar about Labor’s live export ban. I said to him, “this is a minority issue, its hardly going to touch the sides in terms of political issues.”

I stand by that comment, but man, they’re a noisy bloody minority! They certainly made me feel i’s gona have to eat my words.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
Briggs? I tuned in late, what happened?
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
I think, or more hope, Sky propagandists are as usual wrong.

I think there might be some strong Liberals that could come right into the foreground.

Now that the 2010’s crowd are finally getting shoved to the side, the Liberals might have enough clear air, or a clean enough slate, to reinvent and renew themselves to be more representative of the direction and attitudes of the country today.

Problem they’ve had since Abbott, has been this idea they’ve loosely held of a natural line of succession. That Turnbull had to have his turn, Dutton the same, Friedenberg was also expected to have a turn as Party leader along the same vein. Morrison was definitely the wild card in that though.

A Member i’ll be watching is Andrew Hastie, he seems a good operator, shit opinions on the world, but competence is important, especially in a time for rebuilding a Party, which the Libs obviously need to do.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
If Labour take anything from this election its that Starmer should walk into his cabinet room tomorrow/this morning and put all his chips on electoral reform.

Top of the list, ‘soft mandatory’ voting. He’s surely got the numbers in Parliament, he’s already quite unpopular, and he’s probably someone you could trust to deliver electoral reform that represents what the people in a given election want, not skew ot to what a Party wants.

The Conservatives would never do electoral reform, and if they did, theres no-one there that could be technocratic enough to be reliable. So it could be the UK’s best chance in a long time.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨ABC 2025 Election Watch Party⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
I think it woukd have been the blocking of legislation last year, if anything.

But i have heard the seats they won last time were a bit of fluke narrow path to victory that would be hard to hold, but the ABC are saying they’re marginally increasing overall vote share 12.5% to 12.7%.

So maybe this will be a story about an aberration election, followed by a correction to their tradition of rising broad support across Australia.

If thats the case then they shouldn’t look at tonight’s outcome as a bad result, they gave the Majors their first genuine scare last election, with their vote share rising, this will make it more likely to happen in more diversified seats across the country. Thats a great future for the Greens, ehat they don’t want is to have a fate like the Nationals whete they’re geographically cornered with no real avenue for growth as a Party.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨All the political mail I got this election⁩ ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩:
You raise a good point, they could have an interesting point of distinction with their election materials as opposed the other parties. The difference in materials could be eye catching in itself.

In saying that, i have noticed the Greens in my area have a higher rate of generic Greens Party corflutes, without the candidates, so thats something i suppose.
‘They were chanting as they killed people in their homes’: survivors describe attack on Sudan’s Zamzam campwww.theguardian.com ↗
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⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨'Read the room': WA Greens reschedule Anzac Day dance party fundraiser⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Hmm, it seems a bit problematic that it was going to be a political party fundraiser.

If it was a fundraiser for Veterans, or maybe a thankyou party for campaign staff, would the reactions have been different?

I’m wondering how much of this is Greens bashing, and how much of this is genuine.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Rightwing lobby group Advance says it makes ‘no apology’ for support given to anti-Greens groups⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
They definitely threw around a lot of money, i believe the way the media counted the funding also probably underestimated the amounts they really had for that campaign.

But the referendum was a complicated beast, misinformation certainly played a part, but there was also simple confusion, lack of goodwill, Australian’s natural propensity to be conservative with our actions. It was always a moon shot.

I know the actual result ended up just about the opposite to the pre/early referendum polls, but i think too much weight is put on those polls as evidence for the undue influence No campaigner’s misinformation had.

I’ll try to explain my reasoning below,

A referendum is nothing like an opinion poll which is a cheap indication at best of a snapshot of sentiment on a subject.
- The question asked by a market research company will be treated by a respondent with far less seriousness than that same question in a referendum. So thats one thing.
Same thing seems to be happening to Dutton and the Liberals now the Federal election has been called.
- The bar for a referendum is very high, that in itself likely has a tonal effect on the citizenry during the campaign, as the citizenry learn the double majority rules, and the practical finality of constitutional changes.
- There is widespread misunderstanding, and distrust of the interpretive nature of Australian law as opposed a more codified system. The populous, i believe, thinks our laws are far more codified than they actually are. A fundamental, but often overlooked strength of Australia is our judiciaries, for now, ability to interpret the statutes/Constitution for the uniqueness of the case before them, the more codified a system is the less this nuance can be utilised by the judiciary. No where is this more the case than in Constitutional law.
My point about interpretation of law is fundamental to the wording of the Voice proposal. It was intentionally vague for the protection of the courts ability to apply the real world cases that would inevitably rise.

But by serving the interests of making good law, it made it a confusing proposition to the citizenry, and due to its vague wording allowed a No campaign ample room to attach all kinds of possibilities that the wording couldn’t reject without judicial intervention, ie a High Court case determining the limits.

So the vagueness allowed a wide berth for misinformation to seem plausible, whilst being hard to deny or counter.
- Lack of community goodwill, i also think, was a key under-rated problem with the Voice Referendum, especially when compared to the Same sex Marriage Plebiscite. A difference between the two is the relative dispersals of the two minority populations within the wider Australian community. LGBT+ persons are distributed relatively more evenly throughout class, race, ethnicity, geography, etc, whereas Indigenous Australians are for more centralised along those demographics. So there was a closeness, and therefore higher rates of familiarity, with LGBT+ Australians, than with Indigenous Australians. I think this played a big role.
Then theres other factors like lack of bipartisanship, which decreased likelihood of rusted on Party line voters to vote in favour, against their general election behaviour.

I don’t that was a big moment for Australia. I don’t think most people have reslly reckoned with the complicated reasons why that fell the way it did.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Rightwing lobby group Advance says it makes ‘no apology’ for support given to anti-Greens groups⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Its why i’m so excited by the idea of Activitypub. It offers the world another chance at a genuine ‘Market of Ideas’. And thats what i’m all about, sharing the idea’s not necessarily from a specific political hue, but they have to be based in the facts for me.

But, i don’t think its a coincidence that theres a large crossover with progressive publications, and ‘factual’ outlets. Progressives afterall have to take the world as they find it otherwise they’d progress from nonsense to chaos. Thats something not all across other parts of the political spectrum feel a strong demand on.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Rightwing lobby group Advance says it makes ‘no apology’ for support given to anti-Greens groups⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
So, i was speaking in the context of Australia. So thats important when considering how its working out so far. Each Nation’s media is distinct to a greater or lesser degree. And, i think its going pretty well here, not perfect though.

You’re dead right about the media and social media skews. But Australia is, luckily/smartly, dealing with these issues better than most. We actually have a Government whonis willing to put up legislation afainst social media platforms, however flawed that legislation may be, that places known limits in the minds of those platforms owners’ power.

The concentration of traditional media has been diluted from its zenith of power by the ABC, and the introduction of Guardian. One of which will never leave, and the other of which has a great deal of support. And of course those Social media companies whose interests don’t always align.

Basically, i think its going better for us here, which the Greens success as a mainstay Party proves. Along with other minor parties, Nationals not included in that, they have a unique historical context which seems to have frozen them as a share of the electorate and nation.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Rightwing lobby group Advance says it makes ‘no apology’ for support given to anti-Greens groups⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
Yeah, na, good point.

I suppose i’s thinking of the longer term argument, where hopefully enough people learn the spurious claim that are made.
⁨Comment⁩ on ⁨Guardian Australia had a dream run. Has it lost its edge?⁩ ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩:
So that’s whats happened, i’d noticed a number of the big names had disappeared from the podcasts.

I, for one am glad Paul Karp isn’t doing the Australian Politics podcast anymore, he was terrible. I’ve been enjoying some of the other journalists presenting the Essential Media updates with peter Lewis much more. Theres plenty of talent among all these people to take over the podcast, they could even get a couple of them on the podcast as joint presenters, a social familiarity between people on a podcast is important and dual presenters can really help that. Rest is Politics UK is a great example where this has worked really well.

Still sad Murphy left, but i’d argue she was the only really influential loss. The space is now clear for some really interesting new people to fill the gaps.