How much more progressive are European views as compared to progressives in America?

Submitted ⁨⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨ramble81@lemmy.zip⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

I’ve always heard that Democrats in America would be considered a “right leaning” party in Europe, however I’ve wondered about someone who considers themselves progressive, where they would line up on the spectrum in Europe.

For example I want:

Universal Healthcare
UBI
Taxation of the rich
Marriage and general equality for LGBTQ+ persons
Better public transport and corresponding social services for all people

Is there something I’m missing in my views, or is that generally what left leaning progressives are looking for in Europe?

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litchralee@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
One thing which isn’t immediately apparent, even to Americans themselves, is that the large American political parties are less equivalent to individual political parties elsewhere, and are closer to “uneasy coalitions”, like those found in Europe involving multiple parties trying (and maybe failing) to form a government. That makes it harder to draw broad conclusions like “USA Democrats would be right-of-center” because progressives and “DINOs” (Democrats in name only) within the party would be left-wing or right-wing, respectively. Logically, the same applies to the Republican party, although ranging from RINOs (Republicans in name only) and “moderate Republicans”, to the far-right factions of the party, like neo-Nazis and MAGA.

With that said, what you’re describing sounds similar to social democracy. Not to be confused with democratic socialism, which is generally further along to the left than social democracy, with the goal to reform the state away from private ownership of the means of production and away from capitalism. When Bernie Sanders of Vermont says “I am a socialist”, his positions align well to European social democracy, even though he originally described himself as “democratic socialist”.

But I must reiterate that the precise definition of political ideology is less important than community-building, since that’s how ideology becomes reality.

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jjpamsterdam@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
From what I understand the Democratic Party in the United States is a wide tent that includes people who consider themselves to be democratic socialists all the way to middle of the road, don’t rock the boat kind of folks. While the former might feel at home in a European social democratic party or perhaps even a socialist party, the latter would likely find more common ground among the liberal (in the economic meaning of that term) or conservative/christian democratic parties.

The main difference I feel is that most European countries have representative democracies with proportional representation in their parliament. This usually avoids the lost vote effect if you vote for smaller parties. Therefore, what are usually the wings of larger parties in the United States, would be separate parties altogether in most European countries.

Having said that the core of the Democratic Party and the majority of people in power and office from that party over the last decade or two have been centrists at heart. Even when given the opportunity they didn’t introduce any true universal healthcare. They didn’t address the fact that the minimum wage doesn’t reflect the rising costs most people face. They didn’t address the rapidly growing inequality. They didn’t move the needle on any public transport infrastructure projects. They successfully kept the country running and the economy growing while not seriously changing anything about the underlying structure of the nation. This is evidence enough for me to assert that the Democratic Party would probably be somewhere around Merkel’s CDU, Rutte’s VVD or perhaps Macron’s party (whatever name it’s currently going by) in terms of ideology.

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floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Europe is neither a country nor a single culture. The political spectrum isn’t the same between Portugal, Sweden, and Poland. Different histories lead to different culture and politics

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Fairgreen@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
America needs to move to a multi party system (only possible with direct representation and without regional representation). This would open up so many possibilities for Americans

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- Successful_Try543@feddit.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  only possible with direct representation and without regional representation
  
  Multi party systems work also with regional representation if both approaches, regional and federal, are mixed.
  
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TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I don’t want UBI, as that perpetuates money and capitalism, I want universal distribution of resources.

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- jwiggler@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You should check out the last chapter of Bullshit Jobs. The author makes a good case for UBI as a liberating force for people whose lives are tied to demeaning work. His idea is that UBI would free people from being dependent on an economic master in order to have access to basic human needs like shelter, food, water, healthcare, etc. but also less concrete needs such as sociability, leisure, and play. It would have to go hand in hand with some regulation on prices.
  
  He’s an anarchist so he ostensibly has your same aversion (completely warranted) to the perpetuation of money and capitalism.
  
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- phdepressed@sh.itjust.works ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I question whether that can occur in a good way. I don’t see human greed going away, better to cage it under heavy control and not get complacent.
  
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A_norny_mousse@feddit.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
European views can be just as progressive or blinkered as anywhere else in the world I guess.

Different European countries have different parties.

Some of them might be “center left” or “center right” and usually both would comfortably fit under the umbrella that is “Democrats” in the US.

The things you want might already exist in your European State of choice. If not, some of it might be covered by any of the large parties. At least partially. Of course you can always vote further left if you want.

I don’t think unconditional UBI is a realistic ask atm, but otoh the social net is stronger or much stronger, compared to the US.

All your simple points are actually pretty complex if you look at it from within a country & its existing policies.

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Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
We have many of the items on the list. I think UBI will take some time, and while the current government is still fighting it, we’ll have to go back to tax the rich before long.

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