US Email Providers - Other then Google, MS, Apple, ...

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨furrowsofar@beehaw.org⁩ to ⁨technology@beehaw.org⁩

I need to change ISPs and need to find an find a new email provider. This time I want to move to my own domain which I purchased through Namecheap and I do not want to use another ISP’s email system nor do I want to use Google, or Microsoft since I am Linux (and Android too) based. I would like this to be US based or at least have a strong US presence so obvious choices like Proton Mail, Mailfence, and Mailbox.org are out. I would prefer it interoperate well with FOSS software too, I use Thunderbird and K-9 Mail for example. Also so want them want them to be trustworthy, have good security, and have good OpSec on their servers.

After looking I find three I am considering and they are quite different:

Fastmail. Long history. No PGP support but they do have their own domains one can use also.
Namecheap Private Email. Uses Ox App Suite, supports PGP, and quite new. I think you have to have your own domain (not sure).
Forward Email (forwardemail.net). A forwarder with IMAP support. You supply the webmail if you want webmail, but otherwise it should work fine with IMAP and normal clients.

So questions:

Any thoughts and experience, pros and cons with the above 3.
Other better ideas.

So thoughts? Thanks.___

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Comments

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Greg@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Why is US based one of your requirements?

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I believe in being as local as one can. One cannot always assume that those global data links will be up the way the world is going. Also if you think email security is bad in the US then how is it better to ship data half way around the world. Makes no sense to me. The US is not suppose to spy on US citizens in the US but every thing that passes a border is up for grabs as far as I know.
  
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  - Powderhorn@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    The US is not suppose to spy on US citizens in the US
    
    And yet …
    
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scsi@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Fastmail has one feature many others lack (which is hard to research unless you want/need it and have go down the rabbit hole) - scope limited login tokens for specific uses. Specifically, you can set up one for “read only IMAP” (to archive emails using scripts etc.), “SMTP only” (to send emails from scripts like backup reports etc.) and so forth. Many,if not most, other providers either don’t have it, ir if they do it’s very limited like one token only with no scope control. $0.02 hth

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Antient@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
[deleted]
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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Fastmail is probably the front runner. The cost which is maybe $132 a year seems a bit much but doable. They also do not support PGP and WKD. The namecheap premium plan would we would be $72 a year and even less with the current promo. They also have a cpanel mail solution too which is even less. Similarly mxroute is about $49 year for more too and seems like it may be run by people with similar attention to detail.
  
  I agree though that Fastmail is a good choice and a more definition term reputation for email.
  
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  - lemmyvore@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Use a volume-based email provider like MXroute, where you pay strictly for the resources you consume (storage space and mails sent) not made-up limitations like number of accounts, aliases, domains etc. that cost the provider nothing.
    
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eikihj@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
purelymail.com is brilliant, have been using it for 4 years and am using it with thunderbird and k9.

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I was wondering about these guys. Seems too small to early stage. It says Beta. Feels like a one person operation though maybe I am wrong. Also web traffic is really low though maybe it is because they do not use trackers.
  
  Happy to here any insights.
  
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  - eikihj@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It is a one person operation but it is very stable, I have not had any issues during the 4 years. I had some questions when I signed up and they were answered quickly (within few hours). The ‘Beta’ sign has been there always, in my opinion it doesn’t mean anything. The is a news page, news.purelymail.com and there are about 5 ‘items’ (mostly some disturbances) per year since 2020. There is a ‘free trial’ so you have nothing to lose :)
    
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colournoun@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I think you should reconsider Proton. It seems to tick all of your boxes except US-based. However, I know they have US-based VPN servers, so I expect they have US-based email servers as well. It’s worth asking their support team about.

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- Shamot@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It doesn’t interoperate well with FOSS software like K9 and Thunderbird.
  
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  - lud@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It does work fine with Thunderbird but you need their bridge app.
    
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- zhunk@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’m not really into the idea of moving everything to a baby Google, even if they’re currently good about privacy. They just added an AI tool to email and a crypto wallet, which could be either awful or great signs depending on your perspective.
  
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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  As you might guess Proton or Mailfence are my top picks if they were in the US. Regarding Proton, unless I am missing something I would need the Ultimate plan side I need more then one account and domain hosting. That is very expensive.
  
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Truck_kun@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m a recent fastmail user:

Pros: First off, they put me on a 30 day trial, so had a full 30 days to try out; I would suggest trying their trial as one of your first things.

I do love that I can make so many aliases for different email things.

I do love I can add an API key to my bitwarden account to auto-generate email masks for things: https://bitwarden.com/blog/use-bitwarden-to-generate-email-aliases-with-fastmail/

Offer’s a reasonably priced family plan for up to 6 users (50 GB per user - after using Gmail from day one, including non-email storage, my Gmail is only up to 35 GB), and they have annual plan options which give you a discount over monthly for a better deal.

Has a calendar feature, and notes, for which I am putting stuff I used to text to myself, or message to my wife on discord.

Use multiple of my own domains (purchases elsewhere), and just set the nameservers to FastMail, and they handle setting up everything for modern email like DKIM, DMARC, and stuff. Though you are not obligated to purchase a domain, they have many you can choose from. They allow you to use a ton of custom domains (where as some other providers allow like 3, 10, or 30, depending on your plan).

They have an import feature from your old mail accounts. I did not try it, as I decided to start fresh. I’m trying to move away from gmail incase they lock me out someday, but my account is in good standing, and I have access to everything there as storage; just proactively moving all my important accounts over to my own domains.

I’ll put this at the end as it is a pro or con depending on your outlook: I trust FastMail to not use my data like google, and am okay with our business relationship. Because of this, I am okay with my data not being so hard locked down that FastMail is able to restore access/help users getting locked out of their accounts. For a true End-to-End encrypted option, I question if that recovery would be possible (which can be a good thing, if your purpose is protecting your data, even from warrants/court orders/subpoenas); they may have recovery keys, but what if you lost those?

Con: Found out after my trial ended, that when I email my work, my emails go to Quarantine. Our work uses Microsoft Outlook, and they have a quarantine feature that keeps stuff from hitting even the spam folder; my work has phishing set to ‘aggressive’, which is what is quarantining my emails. Once i passed one email through quarantine, i’m recieiving them fine now. Also if the user adds the email to their contacts list.

After looking around, this appears to be an ongoing issue with microsoft from fastmail emails. You cant email email the recipient to inform them of the quarantined email, because all emails are quarantined. Not a deal breaker, as it’s microsoft’s doing, not FastMail, but still annoying, especially if you have to tell them to add you as a contact first. May get better after your domain builds some reputation with their servers, I don’t really know yet.

A lot of people recommend https://tuta.com/ as a more privacy conscious option, and if I did decide to leave FastMail, they are probably what I would switch to. They do have a free email. Tuta also has family options, which can be more generous storage wise depending on your plan, but their family option appears to just be pay the full price of your plan for each user to add them to your family plan, and Tuta (at least from their pricing page), only has monthly as an option, no discounts for commitments.

For fastmail, I pay $132/year ($11/month) for 50 GB for 6 users, For Tuta it appears to be €3/user/month for 20GB, or €8/user/month for 500 GB (so for 2 users, you are either paying €6 or €16). Ultimately I found FastMail to be a better choice for me. If you switch to business, they do have a €6/user/month option for 50 GB /user, which would be €12/month, so comparable to FastMail’s family plan if you only have 2 users, but less comparable if you need more than 2 users. Due to tuta’s pricing structure, you could just get each user the plan they need (not sure if that requires separate accounts, or if can be done on a family plan, which does have domain sharing implications, but maybe everyone wants their own domains).

My recommendation would be to make a FastMail trial, make a free tuta account, and try both for a month, then make your decision.

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yes… email filtering is a huge problem. Do you know if the issue was with your domain or whether it happens with Fastmail’s standard domains also?
  
  Regarding Tuta… not IMAP/SMTP and not US, so no for me. Otherwise I agree.
  
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  - scsi@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Two tips having worked in the corporate world (strict controls):
    
    Create a basic non-spam web page for it that has something that doesn’t look like SEO garbage or whatever. Nothing more than “hey this is a personal domain of the flatbield family” is fine, maybe a link to something (links enhance rep - put a picture of your dog up or link to a wikipedia article or something) and let it rest for at least 30 days. The 3rd party filtering services used by corporate players severely limit, block or distrust a domain newer than 30 days (or longer, depending). Set up a SSL cert on it for another +1 to it’s rep value, HTTPS is looked at by these services and ensure the CA record is in your DNS for that SSL issuer.
    
    Ensure you use the Providers’ setup for DKIM, SPF and so forth (many like Fastmail have a DNS-check wizard to get you all set up) as many modern providers will instantly downvote you if anything is missing or wrong with these controls (I’ve heard GMail and O365 particularly). In 2024 these are a must-have, not a nice-to-have, for getting your email received by anyone and everyone.
    
    If you chose a domain at a TLD which has/had been used by the bad buys (dot-xyz, info, zip, etc.) you may wish to reconsider - there are TLDs which are wholescale blocked or downvoted in rep based on this (by the same services used above). Ensure someone working at a bank (strict egress controls for their employees) can visit your domain as a good litmus test as to it’s validity for use in email reputation.
    
    A company such as Fastmail spends a lot of time ensuring their IP address space for sending and receiving mail is clean - getting spammers off their service, getting IP rep cleaned off blacklists and so forth. So your task is to focus on the same thing for your domain - if someone had previously owned the name they could have gotten it on blacklists long ago, a handy way to check old history is looking it up at web.archive.org for captured snapshots (and I’ve walked away from domain names because of this once I discovered previous content I didn’t like).
    
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  - Truck_kun@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I didn’t know about the tuta IMAP thing. Makes sense, unless they open it up for development from third party providers, but that is unlikely to ever happen. I can definitely see that as being a deal-breaker, and why I’ll probably stick with fastmail
    
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  - Truck_kun@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I only learned about quarantine the other day. Specifically I think it was me sending short messages that make sense when emailing yourself, like a photo with no body text, or just “test”.
    
    Going through there, found my Gmail, my personal domain, and my @fastmail domain app going there until I approved one of them.
    
    I had my personal domain on a lifetime mxroute account before this, but wasn’t using it. Made the move to fastmail to seriously move away from Google. I have my purchase ebooks backed up there, and they could close my account someday because of it, even if it’s a personal backup of purchased items and not sharing with others.
    
    Also making a wasabi account and using rclone to sync my library, so can move away on that front too. though Wasabi has a perfectly usable web interface. i have my reasons for choosing them over backblaze.
    
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corruptian@mastodon.cloud ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
@furrowsofar
Run your own goddamn email server. Don't trust these big fat companies.
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- tal@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I would advise against this.
  
  I am all about running things yourself, run most stuff myself, but email is just a nightmare these days with all the anti-spam stuff out there.
  
  Go ask at !selfhosted@lemmy.world. They’ll tell you the same thing.
  
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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Thanks. Like the sentiment. Yes I can do this but my wife cannot. So this option is out. It needs to be a solution that she can maintain alone if something happens to me. This concern gets a lot more real as one gets older.
  
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- Estebiu@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Email in itself is an outdated protocol. Even if you’re selfhosting it, and have the best opsec practices; if the other person uses gmail then you’re fucked anyway.
  
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  - tal@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Not having mandatory security is a legit issue, but there isn’t a secure drop-in replacement, not in 2024. You’re gonna need widespread support, support for file transfer, federated operation, resistance to abuse, client software on many platforms, etc.
    
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sabreW4K3@lazysoci.al ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Since others are mentioning non-US based, I would like to recommend Migadu.

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adespoton@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Big question is: who’s storing the email, you or them? Your mail clients handle POP3 and IMAP as well as SMIME and GPG so the server doesn’t have to.

Since you want something your wife can manage, stay away from the forwarders. Whatever you choose, check Spamhaus and SURBL to see if the provider has a history of getting on their lists.

Make sure you select one that can stay in business providing email service, so you don’t have to worry about the company collapsing/being bought out/pushing ads/selling PII/bundling mail with some more lucrative service.

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Zier@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Pay for hosting through Namecheap (lowest tier price) and use your domain there through cPanel in your hosting interface. Don't use their email only offering, it's more expensive. All you need to do is set up the domain and email addresses. You don't need to actually host a website. They have a web interface, but I use a client (Thunderbird).

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Interesting. So to confirm, your saying in the hosting panel I can configure it and they have SMTP, IMAP, and Webmail servers that they maintain I can use? No need to setup a VPS for it?
  
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  - Zier@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Correct. This is web-hosting email. I personally only use POP3, but it has it all.
    This is a sample help link. https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/article.aspx/271/2186/cpanel-email-account-setup-in-thunderbird/
    And this is the general FAQ https://www.namecheap.com/support/knowledgebase/subcategory/31/cpanel-email-faqs/
    
    Just a FYI, if you are sending too much email, or doing mailing lists you will get dinged. High volumes need more expensive accounts. The FAQ has more info. I would suggest the Stellar or Stellar Plus for Shared Hosting. I have an older discontinued plan that gives me a few more email addresses, but otherwise it's the same rebranded.
    
    The cost for a year of Hosting $44.88 plus your Domain renewal ($15-22) a year depending on your TLD is cheaper than most providers that do email only. I personally always recommend Namesilo for domain registrations.
    
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key@lemmy.keychat.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
MXRoute is about a decade old and based in Texas. It’s in that “unix philosophy” category of doing something well and stopping there so you won’t get them advertising their new crypto wallet or AI software on you. It’s mostly geared for more technical bring your own domain type of usage. If you’re wanting to use it more as a forwarder and want to store the history locally (or if you don’t email files) there’s a “lifetime” plan available.

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Thanks. Interesting. I will take a look.
  
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Moonrise2473@feddit.it ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I like Zoho mail, decent prices for a lot of features

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I looked at them. From me that feels like trading a US software giant for an Indian one. So I would choose Google Workspace first. I agree though Zoho is interesting.
  
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tal@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

No PGP support

Why would the mail provider need to support it? I mean, if they provide some sort of webmail client, maybe it doesn’t do PGP, but I sure wouldn’t be giving them my PGP keys anyway.

I haven’t used any of them, but I don’t think that you can go too far wrong here, since you have your own domain. Pick one, try it for non-critical stuff for a month or two, and if you don’t like it, switch. As long as you own the domain, you’re not locked in. If you do like it, then just start migrating.

The main differentiating factors I can think of are (a) service reliability, (b) risk that someone breaks in and dumps client mail, but it’s hard for me to evaluate the risk of that at a given place. And © how likely it is that other parties spam-block mail from them.

I’d look for TLS support for SMTP and IMAP; that may be the norm these days. The TLS situation for mail is a little unusual compared to most protocols, where on a new connection, some servers initially use the non-encrypted version and then upgrade via STARTTLS.

If you intend to leave your mail on their server rather than just using it as a temporary holding point until you fetch it, you might look into what their storage provided is.

I’d also see what the maximum size of any individual email that they permit is.

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- furrowsofar@beehaw.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I could be handy to read you mail on the web client. Depends on how secret you want your PGP key, how much you trust your provider. I would argue that in most cases it would be better for the provider to manage the keys then to have no one use PGP which is what we mostly have now.
  
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skizzles@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Tutanota (now just Tuta) allows you to use your domain. I use it, it doesn’t support external clients (Outlook, Thunderbird, etc.) but they do have Android, Linux, Windows (maybe Mac too) clients.

It’s also cheap.

I’ve been using it for a few years now, it works for me.

You can get a free account to check it out first and if you like it just upgrade to get the personal domain usage and increased storage limit.

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