I guess the idea is that the models themselves are not infringing copyright, but the training process DID. Some of the big players have admitted to using pirated material in training data. The rest obviously did even if they haven’t admitted it.
While language models have the capacity to produce infringing output, I don’t think the models themselves are infringing (though there are probably exceptions). I mean, gzip can reproduce infringing material too with the correct input. If producing infringing work requires both the algorithm AND specific, intentional user input, then I don’t think you should put the blame solely on the algorithm.
Either way, I don’t think existing legal frameworks are suitable to answer these questions, so I think it’s more important to think about what the law should be rather than what it currently is.
I remember stories about the RIAA suing individuals for many thousands of dollars per mp3 they downloaded. If you applied that logic to OpenAI — maximum fine for every individual work used — it’d instantly bankrupt them. Honestly, I’d love to see it. But I don’t think any copyright holder has the balls to try that against someone who can afford lawyers. They’re just bullies.
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
I’m still not understanding the logic. Here is a copyrighted picture. I can search for it, download it, view it, see it with my own eye balls. My browser already downloaded the image for me, in order for me to see it in the browser. I can take that image and edit it in a photo editor. I can do whatever I want with the image on my own computer, as long as I don’t publish the image elsewhere on the internet. All of that is legal. None of it infringes on copyright.
Hell, it could be argued that if I transform the image to a significant degree, I can still publish it under Fair Use. But, that still gets into a gray area for each use case.
What is not a gray area is what AI training does. They download the image and use it in training, which is like me looking at a picture in a browser. The image isn’t republished, or stored in the published model, or represented in any way that could be reconstructed back to the source image in any reasonable form. It just changes a bunch of weights in a LLM model. It’s mathematically impossible for a 4GB model to somehow store the many many terabytes of images on the internet.
Where is the copyright infringement?
Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 5 weeks ago
If you take that image, copy it and then try to resell it for profit you’ll find you’re quickly in breach of copyright.
The LLM is, in most cases, being licensed out to users for a profit off of the input data without which it could not exist in its current form.
You could see it akin to plagiarism if you think ctrl+c, ctrl+v is too extreme.
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
That’s not what’s happening. Did you even read my comment?
Semjaza@lemmynsfw.com 5 weeks ago
OK, if you ignore the hyperbole of my pre-christmas stress aggressive start, how much of the rest do you disagree with?
Less combatitively, I’m of the stance that just make AI generated materials exempt from copyright and you’ll at least limit mass adoption in public facing things by big money. Doesn’t address all the issues, though.
GenderNeutralBro@lemmy.sdf.org 5 weeks ago
I agree that the models themselves are clearly transformative. That doesn’t mean it’s legal for Meta to pirate everything on earth to use for training. THAT’S where the infringement is. And they admitted they used pirated material: techspot.com/…/101507-meta-admits-using-pirated-b…
I would enjoying seeing megacorps held to at least the same standards as individuals. I would prefer for those standards to be reasonable across the board, but that’s not really on the table here.