Comment on Pretty interesting when you really think about it.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days agoYes and no.
Borders may not mean a lot when you just pop out of your mother.
But when you have worked 30-50 years building a place in a certain way you may actually have some legit entitlement on all that you built and worked for.
Allonzee@lemmy.world 3 days ago
How do the people living in squalor despite working usually even harder with less protections than that worker who worked 30-50 years having their building being protected from those people’s opportunity to do the same, or to make that worker’s 30-50 years of building yield a little less so that none of them toil 30-50 years for basically nothing?
You seem to be looking at this from a tiny nation state citizen viewpoint rather than a holistic, humanistic viewpoint.
Self-serving self-interest doesn’t impress me. It’s the reason humanity is on the brink of destroying our habitat and killing one another all over.
The most destructive notion humanity was ever inspired to have was “ok… But what’s in it for me?”
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
Self-interest is the principal motive of migrants though. Instead of staying and trying to work to improve a bad place they chose to move to an already better place because it’s better for them.
They literally move because the other country have something good in it for them.
Why ask for some pristine selfness to some people but not to other?
I’m a member of the working class. I do get my income exclusively from work. I’m not capitalist, I work hard every day for what I have. So the amount of selfness and sacrifices that can and should be asked to me are small.
Between members of the working class solidarity must go both ways to work.
Allonzee@lemmy.world 3 days ago
You being against other laborers plays into the hands of our shared common enemy that created and maintain this mass desperation under threat of the state violence they’ve captured.
If you want to get a reasonable amount of the value of your labor, you need to look up, and not lose your focus of who your enemy is, not across an imaginary line at people those multinational oligarchs have made even more desperate for their famies than you.
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
I’m not against other workers. I would gladly work to produce weapons for them if they need to depose some oligarchs that does not allow them to stablish a workers society in some place.
What is bot reasonable is to give up on 90% of the world land and just suppose that the few places that have achieved some level of quality of life for a worker are the only place where all people are supposed to be. That just does not work. Not for them, not for me. Not for anyone. That policies are only going to destroy the few places we have built where workers can have good lives. And then… what? When europe is no longer a good place to live where is people going to emigrate to?
Emigration is not a solution to world problems. Is just ignoring a problem. I’ll give a concrete example. How letting all capable workers from one place move to another makes the former place better for workers?
As I said, I’m open to other forms of class solidarity to solve issues. If I can do some to improve a country which have issues so that country is more livable I’ll do it, because it’s a long term good solution.
But massive inmigration solves nothing. It just ask for a big sacrifice to me to improve other lives. And again working class can do only so many sacrifices before it start thinking about itself.
Also. Inmigration is not even as class conscious as painted. We all know that we have that much inmigration only because capitalists need workers that are willing to accept less money for more work, not for any other reason. They are used as meat and oil for keeping the shareholders profits, in societies where native workers are asking for better salaries and won’t be easily exploited.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 2 days ago
“Pristine selflessness?” This is a strawman, no one is asking any such thing. It also feels a little like a false dichotomy, as there are many stopping points between “selfish opportunist” and “pristine selflessness.”
AppleTea@lemmy.zip 3 days ago
kinda sucks to be less free than the fucking geese