Comment on Why aren't vegan?
CTDummy@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Grew up with (and later worked on) a family operated feedlot. From being inducted/fed in the feedlot to the process of being sent to the abattoir. Occasionally, we’d have butchers out to the feedlot for when the owners had their own beast killed for food.
So I’d say a bit of desensitisation but also they don’t have too bad a life in the feedlot (imo obviously) and when they’re killed, at least on site, it’s over before they know what’s happened. Feedlot has cameras around the stock camp and feedlot in general. For security but also, mishandling cattle will get you sacked. Electric prods are no longer allowed except for particular unruly cattle. Mishandled cattle are stressed cattle, and stressed cattle are more likely to get injured (or even hurt themselves). If these cattle die or have to be euthanise it’s a loss; so it’s a business decision more than moral one.
Can’t speak to other feedlots or types of farming (excluding planting). Dated vegans before; enjoy meat replacements even if I’m still Omni and generally try to reduce my meat consumption for health and environmental reasons.
NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 1 month ago
Have you had a look at www.farmtransparency.org ? it’s real stuff going on right now. you don’t need meat replacements etc, beans and rice are the bulk of most plant based diets. Cheap as chips and healthy as.
CTDummy@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I’ve seen sites similar (except specifically for abuse cases) and read “eating animals”. Found the feedlot I worked at on the site you linked and they have no record (fortunately). No one really “needs” anything apart from that required for survival. However, the majority of humans are omni so making product that appeal to them will result in more of us considering moving beyond meat.
I’ve got no problem with vegans or people being meat free, I respect it. That said, the majority of humans are and have been omni since recorded history so it’s not as simple as “just” not eating meat. The gut biome transition alone is enough to put off a lot of people, even if it passes somewhat quickly.
NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 1 month ago
This seems like half an argument from nature, which is a bit odd. I mean I don’t see you arguing against using antibiotics despite most humans since recorded history not using them or whatever.
Tradition is a bad argument for anything. Either it is right or wrong to kill animals when we don’t need to. I’m sure you take a rather dim view of whaling because it is unnecessary, despite it being deeply entwined with many cultures and historically common. Or dog fighting or whatever.
Why is eating cows different to whaling, fighting dogs, or using elephants in circuses. If we don’t need to eat them it’s only for fun we do.
CTDummy@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I can see that, more to point out current social norms or “tradition” as you put it. If the majority of people are currently omni and they have not external reason to change; they won’t. Psychosocial factors/status quo might be what I’m appealing to?
Well I’d assert that those cases are not all equal. Cattle in feedlots probably don’t live the same lives dogs that fight each other; often to the death. Whales are important to their ecosystem (and we could fish them into extinction). It’s also just super wasteful to kill whales for oil/food when we have other ways of sourcing those materials. Elephants can practically never be sufficiently well kept by a circus (except a wealthy company maybe) and are incredibly social animals so there’s no way in my mind to keep them in a circus in a humane way.
I think the main problem veganism/vegos face is pr/marketing. For example, I feel like far more people would become meatless for environmental reason rather than comparing “modern” farming to dog fighting. Which feels more like guilting than anything and puts the receiver immediately on the defensive. Factory farming and abusive farming practices in general can get fucked though.