Comment on UK riots: Judge hands down longest jail sentences yet

• steeznson@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Thank you for providing this extra context. I don’t think that people are really interrogating the circumstances properly when they compare sentences. Roger Hallam is a bona fide weirdo too - anyone who has not heard him being interviewed should listen to 5 mins of him describing his worldview.

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  • VirtualOdour@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah, when you actually look at a lot of protest movements lemmy blindly supports they’re deeply problematic in many ways, of course people want easy answers and glib heros so they’ll get mad if you try and demonstrate nuance.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t think that’s actually true. Honestly it seems like a very limited subset that actually support these actions. Context and nuance be damned.

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• danielquinn@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  These statements, while true are lacking so many critical details that it borders on disinformation.

  • He was a repeat offender of nonviolent crimes.
  • He was held in contempt after the court refused to allow him to speak to the motivation behind his crime, a key component in any defence of nonviolent civil disobedience.
  • Of course he said he would commit the “crime” again. It’s civil disobedience. What exactly are you expecting? The planet is still on fire and we’re still burning it.

  The ambulance thing is pretty terrible, but when you consider the objective outcome of our current world-burning, it’s not an unexpected perspective. Given a few more years of inaction and profiteering, and the nonviolent actors will start giving up on being civil – especially if the penalty is the same regardless. We’ll be looking back on traffic blocking and orange paint with nostalgia.

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  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    • He was a repeat offender of nonviolent crimes.

    And? Does that somehow mean it shouldn’t factor into the decision? Should a serial fraudster also only get a slap on the wrist, because fraud is non-violent?

    Besides, I’d say purposely blocking ambulances saying you’re fine if the person inside dies is pretty violent.

    • He was held in contempt after the court refused to allow him to speak to the motivation behind his crime, a key component in any defence of nonviolent civil disobedience.

    He was held in contempt of court for making a scene more than once. When you’re in court, you’re not the one calling the shots.

    • Of course he said he would commit the “crime” again. It’s civil disobedience. What exactly are you expecting?

    What are you expecting? The judge to say “look, I know as soon as you’re free you’re going to commit more crime, possibly even killing someone, as you’ve mentioned. But because climate change is a thing, I’m going to just let it happen. Btw I hope you enjoy your flight to America for that wedding!”

    And no, don’t put crime in quotes. It’s not “crime”, it’s crime. “Crime” implies that it wasn’t a real crime. It was. He is a criminal.

    What you’ve said here changes nothing. He’s still a repeat offender. He was still in contempt of court. He’s still, by his own admission, a potential danger to the lives of others, he still intended to commit more crimes. And he’s still a gargantuan hypocrite for wanting to kill someone for having the audacity for using a petrol-powered ambulance, while at the same time thinking it’s fine to fly to America to attend a bloody wedding.

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    • danielquinn@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I never contested the facts as stated, only that their presentation, devoid of context was misleading. I put “crime” in quotes to demonstrate the absurdity of a system that imprisons people for blocking traffic when those actually burning the planet are treated with the highest respect by our elected representatives. This wasn’t defrauding old ladies, it was causing a traffic jam.

      Normal car traffic blocks ambulances all the time, and yet no one seems to consider it a crime punishable by 5 years. Meanwhile, a woman kills a cyclist with her car and gets a suspended sentence. Canada is on fire. Greece is on fire. Bulgaria, Italy, North Macedonia, Turkey, Spain, and Portugal are all on fire. How many ambulances-worth of people do you think are going to die as a result?

      And spare me the “he’s a hypocrite 'cause he flew in a plane” pearl-clutching. He knows, as I’m sure you do that you don’t fix climate change through individual action. Sure it feels nice to be all self-righteous and forego luxuries provided by bad energy policy, but real change comes through legislation that taxes the hell out of flying — you know, like JSO is demanding but for which our elected leaders would rather ignore because it’d be unpopular.

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      • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Being stuck in a traffic jam is very different to purposely causing one and purposely making people in ambulances die.

        You don’t think purposely blocking ambulances should be a crime? That’s fucked up.

        And spare me the “he’s a hypocrite 'cause he flew in a plane” pearl-clutching.

        No. Here he is being against people being in ambulances, while he feels it’s fine for him to fly around the world, while at the same time saying that poor people (and only poor people!) shouldn’t be allowed.

        Just more class warfare from upper class toffs who hate the poor. It’s absolutely repulsive.

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• endofline@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  It depends. While I don’t say he was right, Many activists like “last generation” in Poland won’t be persecuted more than few hours of social work for blocking hours long whole street including emergency ambulance. The activits group is actually using subsidized big flat at the city center of Warsaw and Warsaw governor doesn’t care about this. There are double standards by current “good ( by EU ) government in Poland”. There is a clear bias ( i wont say what side ) represented in most governments of EU

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  • TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I don’t really see how Poland (or the EU) are relevant to UK judges enforcing UK laws.

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• GeneralEmergency@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Hey don’t. Don’t you be bringing facts into this. It completely goes against my preconceived notions. And I can’t handle that.

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