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pastabatman@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Do you understand why you are being demonized though? You can’t be mad at people for not understanding your position if you don’t understand theirs. You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better, but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout.

You want to make a difference? Great! There’s a lot of ways to do that. Campaign and fundraise at the local and state level. Push for election reform, ranked choice voting, end to gerrymandering, term limits, electoral college reform, curtail lobbying… any number of things, and push for them more often than once every four years. Voting third party in a presidential election does NOT help.

If you want my respect, acknowledge the reality of the situation and vote for the best option (or the least bad option) among the viable candidates and then work for change within the system. It sucks that we are in this situation, but make a choice grounded in the real world, not a fake ideal world.

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HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

You’re making a choice that is purely symbolic just so you feel better

If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it.

I think Biden does want our vote. And we’re telling him that if he wants our vote, he has to stop the genocide. That’s how we can use our vote to influence the government. That’s how democracy is supposed to work.

but real and vulnerable people across the country have to deal with the fallout

There are real and vulnerable people dying in Gaza right now because of what Biden is doing.

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- assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  If voting third-party were purely symbolic, there wouldn’t be this many people on Lemmy trying to persuade us to not do it
  
  This is a logical fallacy. If lighting myself on fire as protest were purely symbolic, then why are all of my friends persuading me to not do it?
  
  Sometimes people trying to convince/persuade you against something isn’t because you actually have a point – but because your ideas will lead to harm.
  
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  - HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You’re gonna need a better example, because people lighting themselves on fire played a tremendous role in ending popular support for America’s occupation of Vietnam during the Vietnam War.
    
    It’s the last thing I would describe as “symbolic”.
    
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    assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Did it? My understanding is that the draft and footage of their children dying in war is what reshaped the public opinion.
    
    Genuinely asking though, it was before my time.
    
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- PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  and that stops when trump wins… right?
  
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  - HomerianSymphony@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’m not choosing Trump either.
    
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    Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You are supporting Trump by wasting your vote.
    
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    PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    but you are, because you’re not voting biden
    
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    Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    If there were a “no genocide” candidate that could win, making that a single issue would matter. Biden supports Israel despite their actions in Gaza… which he has publicly stated he doesn’t agree with and has taken concrete, if underwhelming, steps to try and stop. Trump has shown us during his previous administration and told us recently that he will support Israel harder and will likely take steps to decrease the resistance to the Palestinian genocide if not outright accelerate it. He’ll also accelerate Russian aggression in Ukraine and likely would ignore our Article 5 responsibilities when Putin advances farther into Europe. I’ll assume you’re familiar with the policy differences on climate and how climate change impacts poor regions (like Gaza) more than it impacts affluent ones like the US (and even we’re getting our asses kicked by climate change this year). You can vote to take a moral stand, or you can vote for desired outcomes. The people trying to convince you not to vote 3rd party are trying to convince you to vote for a desired outcome. There is presently no likely outcome that gives us a non-Biden, non-Trump administration for the next 4 years. Based on that fact, we want to maximize the likelihood of the best availa le outcome. That’s what we’re asking…to think about what the world looks like for the people you care about under Biden and compare those outcomes to what it will look like under Trump and vote based on those outcomes. The time to find the ideal candidate is at the beginning of a presidential term, not the end of one.
    
    You can bet your ass most of us are including the ongoing genocide in our voting decision, we’ve just thought about it enough to know our options aren’t between “stopping genocide” and “continuing genocide”, the choice is between “resisting” (aka, the status quo) or “accelerating”.
    
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- Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  If you care so much for palestine you vote Biden. Its either Biden or Trump and Trump would flatten gaza to get even more settlements named after him.
  
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chakan2@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

If you want my respect

I don’t.

Voting for the stunt double from weekend at Bernie’s does not grant you superiority.

Most of us have been voting in the primaries and are involved in local politics. It didn’t matter. The R/D machine drowns out all opposition to its duopoly.

Biden will not will this election. Democracy died while he confusedly stared into the camera for 6 seconds. Beyond that, he fumbled his closing statement which should disqualify from any public speaking position.

Trump is inevitable. We did all we could to get an alternative to Biden, but his hubris will destroy us.

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- pastabatman@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So your solution is to give up and throw your vote away? I’m glad you didn’t want my respect because you didn’t get it.
  
  A literal corpse being paraded around for four years like Weekend at Bernie’s would still be a better choice than Trump. He attempted a coup to invalidate the will of the people and maintain power, sent a mob to attack the Capitol building, and has been charged with 91 felony counts in four jurisdictions just for stuff he did while in office and as a candidate (convicted of 34 and counting).
  
  But democracy died when an old man showed signs of being old? Not all that other stuff? Yeah, I’m voting for Biden. Easiest decision of my life. You should too.
  
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  - chakan2@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You can argue until you’re blue in the face over there. Biden lost the election with that debate. He didn’t do anything he needed to do this term to protect democracy as we know it and the Supreme Court sealed the R’s final solution today.
    
    It’s over man…game over. Congratulations…your support of the status quo ended Democracy.
    
    In short, yea, I’m perfectly fine not having your respect.
    
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