Comment on Funny, those guys don't usually agree on that much

• Neato@ttrpg.network ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The meme says “American Republicans” so I thought we were considering this from an American pov. Definitions are going to change going to other countries and doubly so when talking about politics.

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  • archomrade@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It isn’t just about it meaning something else when ‘going to another country’. ‘Liberal’ has an actual definition with a history.

    I’m honestly kind of confused about american liberals digging their heals in on this definition when it has historically been taken to mean something they don’t seem to agree with anymore.

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    • Cryophilia@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’m honestly kind of confused about american liberals digging their heals in on this definition when it has historically been taken to mean something they don’t seem to agree with anymore.

      Because regardless pf history or whatever, the definition were giving you is how the 300 million Americans who actually use the term define liberal. Doesn’t matter what you or I think, if we want to have effective communication we need to use words as they are used. I really don’t feel like dying on that particular hill.

      I made my stand with “literally”, I’m not wasting effort on holding fast to a Eurocentric definition of liberal.

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      • archomrade@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        Doesn’t matter what you or I think, if we want to have effective communication we need to use words as they are used.

        I don’t actually disagree with you, I just find it frustrating trying to use a more precise meaning to make a point and being met with resistance. I think a part of the problem is that leftists are trying to point at a distinction that exists within the overbroad american-liberal label that separates leftism proper and center-right democratic institutions, and i feel as if some centrists don’t enjoy the discomfort of being singled out from the more progressive side of the caucus. I could be wrong, and I don’t really care if I am, but I think it’s important to acknowledge the tensions and to try not to erase the diversity of ideology that exists within the ‘liberal party’.

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    • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      ‘Liberal’ has an actual definition with a history.

      The word “awful” has an actual definition with a history too. That history starts with it meaning “full of awe”
      www.etymonline.com/word/awful

      Word usage and definitions change over time. If you know people use a word differently then you need to at least explain the definition you are using or you’re just going to confuse or alienate people who understand the word differently.

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      • archomrade@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I’ll happily state my case for whatever usage I’m adopting, and ask for clarification when I suspect someone is operating on a different one, but I don’t see any case to be made for the vague american label when discussing anything beyond american electoral politics - for the same reason i’m happy to jab at the usage in the same context, because it’s the assumption of neutrality it asserts that I take issue with and am calling attention to.

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  • lugal@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    But the definition doesn’t really change. Take universal healthcare. A liberal idea that’s considered common sense in Europe and left wing in the US. Obamacare would be something you expect from a center right European and a left American. Both are called liberal.

    And if the meme was from an exclusively American pov, it wouldn’t specify “American Republicans”

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    • FozzyOsbourne@lemm.ee ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You’re correct, I specified “American republicans” to refer to the political party because everywhere else “republican” means anti-monarchist

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  • sukhmel@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, this is about as confusing as it gets, I feel like those labels rarely make much sense :(

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