With your logic all artists will have to pay copyright fees just to learn how to draw. All musicians will have to pay copyright fees just to learn their instrument.
Comment on OpenAI says it’s “impossible” to create useful AI models without copyrighted material
noorbeast@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
I will repeat what I have proffered before, along with associated discussions:
If OpenAI stated that it is impossible to train leading AI models without using copyrighted material, then, unpopular as it may be, the preemptive pragmatic solution should be pretty obvious, enter into commercial arrangements for access to said copyrighted material.
Claiming a failure to do so in circumstances where the subsequent commercial product directly competes in a market seems disingenuous at best, given what I assume is the purpose of copyrighted material, that being to set the terms under which public facing material can be used. Particularly if regurgitation of copyrighted material seems to exist in products inadequately developed to prevent such a simple and foreseeable situation.
Yes I am aware of the USA concept of fair use, but the test of that should be manifestly reciprocal, for example would Meta allow what it did to MySpace, hack and allow easy user transfer, or Google with scraping Youtube.
To me it seems Big Tech wants its cake and to eat it, where investor $$$ are used to corrupt open markets and undermine both fundamental democratic State social institutions, manipulate legal processes, and undermine basic consumer rights.
TheFreezinSteven@beehaw.org 11 months ago
chahk@beehaw.org 11 months ago
Do musicians not buy the music that they want to listen to? Should they be allowed to torrent any MP3 they want just because they say it’s for their instrument learning?
I mean I’d be all for it, but that’s not what these very same corporations (including Microsoft when it comes to software) wanted back during Napster times. Now they want a separate set of rules just for themselves. No.
TheFreezinSteven@beehaw.org 11 months ago
Everything you said was completely irrelevant to what I mentioned and just plain ignorant. A
Since when do you buy all the music you have ever listened to?
redcalcium@lemmy.institute 11 months ago
I suspect the US government will allow OpenAI to continue doing as it please to keep their competitive advantage in AI over China (which don’t have problem with using copyrighted materials to train their models).
DaDragon@kbin.social 11 months ago
So why is so much information (data) freely available on the internet? How do you expect a human artist to learn drawing, if not looking at tutorials and improving their skills through emulating what they see?
vexikron@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
Yep, completely agree.
sculd@beehaw.org 11 months ago
Agreed.
There is nothing “fair” about the way Open AI steals other people’s work. ChatGPT is being monetized all over the world and the large number of people whose work has not been compensated will never see a cent of that money.
At the same time the LLM will be used to replace (at least some of ) the people who created those works in the first place.
Tech bros are disgusting.
nicetriangle@kbin.social 11 months ago
This right here is the core of the moral issue when it comes down to it, as far as I'm concerned. These text and image models are already killing jobs and applying downward pressure on salaries. I've seen it happen first hand multiple times now, not just anecdotally from some rando on an internet comment section.
These people losing jobs and getting pay cuts are who created the content these models are siphoning up. People are not going to like how this pans out.
MagicShel@programming.dev 11 months ago
Any company replacing humans with AI is going to regret it. AI just isn’t that good and probably won’t ever be, at least in it’s current form. It’s all an illusion and is destined to go the way of Bitcoin, which is to say it will shoot up meteorically and seem like the answer to all kinds of problems, and then the reality will sink in and it will slowly fade to obscurity and irrelevance. That doesn’t help anyone affected today, of course.
nicetriangle@kbin.social 11 months ago
I most disagree (especially on the long term), but hope you're right
vexikron@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
The flip side of this is that many artists who simply copy very popular art styles are now functionally irrelevant, as it is now just literally proven that this kind of basically plagiarism AI is entirely capable of reproducing established styles to a high degree of basically fidelity.
While many aspects of this whole situation are very bad for very many reasons, I am actually glad that many artists will be pressured to actually be more creative than an algorithm, though I admit this comes from basically a personally petty standpoint of having known many, many, many mediocre artists who themselves and their fans treat like gods because they can emulate some other established style.
nicetriangle@kbin.social 11 months ago
Literally every artist copies, it's how we all learn. The difference is that every artist out there does not have an enterprise-class-data-center-powerd-super-human ability to absorb <ALL THE ART> and then be able to spit out anything instantly. It still takes time and hard work and dedication. And through the years of hard work people put into learning how their heroes do X, Y, and Z, they develop a style of their own.
It's how artists cut their teeth and work their way into the profession. What you're welcoming in is a situation where nobody can find any success whatsoever until they are absolutely original and of course that is an impossible moving target when every original ideal and design and image can just be instantly siphoned back up into the AI model.
Nobody could survive that way. Nobody can break into the artistic industry that way. All the low level work people get earlier in their careers is gone now. You have to be independently wealthy to become a high level artist capable of creating truly original work. Because there's no other way to subsidize the time and dedication that takes when all the work for people honing their craft has been hoovered up by machines.
Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml 11 months ago
That’s not even getting into the fraternity behavior at work, hyper-reactionary politics and, er, concerning age preferences.
sculd@beehaw.org 11 months ago
Yup. I said it in another discussion before but think its relevant here.
Tech bros are more dangerous than Russian oligarchs. Oligarchs understand the people hate them so they mostly stay low and enjoy their money.
Tech bros think they are the savior of the world while destroying millions of people’s livelihood, as well as destroying democracy with their right wing libertarian politics.