bit of a non-sequitur
Comment on Anti-government violence is growing. The response needs to be more than just increased policing
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
fuck the government, we don’t need masters
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Let me rephrase then: I think the government is fundamentally corrupt, so we should abolish it regardless of whatever half-assed attempts they make to placate the majority. They’ll undoubtedly continuing to assault and disempower the same oppressed people that they currently do, for the profit of a select number of corporate elites.
Because that’s what I mean. It can’t be fixed, they can just put in measures to retain power.
naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I’m a goddless commie but random killings of politicians doesn’t seem useful and has established itself as having a deathtoll potentially in the millions^[en.wikipedia.org/…/Assassination_of_Archduke_Fran…].
Incoherant rage only furthers fascist ends and I don’t think it’s a bad thing if the government tries to be less shit. Accelerationism hasn’t got a shiny track record.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
You’re putting words into my mouth that I didn’t even remotely say.
I never said we should go around murdering people, I never said I wanted to accelerate fascism. I kind of want to avoid both of those things actually, they’re among my main complaints with the government.
Things have needed to change for a very long time, these people have been inflicting violence on a frankly absurd scale against first nations people, immigrants, sex workers etc etc.
One politician being attacked being the trigger for “change” is insulting given the context of what they’re inflicting on the populace. They don’t care about being less shit, they just want a licence to continue brutalising the innocent without consequences.
Call it incoherent rage if you like, but I’m allowed to express frustration and anger by commenting relatively meaningless things. You can read into it more if you like but can’t someone just be upset and express a desire for real radical change without it turning into a huge debate?
redwattlebird@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Nah; get rid of lobbying. Make it illegal and make truth in advertising law.
shirro@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
In Australia we generally view government as our servants not masters. We don’t elect a tyrant to rule us. We elect a local member who we can meet and talk to and ask for help with problems.
I disagree with my local member’s politics but I don’t regard him as a bad person or someone out to get me.
I really don’t understand this. Any group of people living together inevitably creates rules and governance to serve their common interests. How are the roads going to be maintained and garbage collected without people contributing money into a pool and electing someone to administer it.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
There is a cultural belief that we elect people and it’s good and fine and works, but that’s observably false. It’s a fantasy idea of what government is supposed to be, but that’s not what it is in practice.
The reaction to people wanting their “representatives” to actually represent them has been an increase in oppressive violence, things like ramping up state violence and introducing anti-protest laws.
The people in my community have been hospitalised, deported, raped and even killed because they wanted things to be better. We’ve gone through all the officially sanctioned channels, we’ve used protest to make ourselves heard, but we’re only being beaten.
How are roads going to be maintained and garbage collected?
As you said, any group of people are going to create rules, but they don’t need to create hierarchical government to effectively enforce those rules, or organise the day to day activities of society. We’ve organised without government plenty of times before.
We’re not just saying things purely out of anger, there’s a massive amount of theory behind it. If you really do want to understand, then if recommend you read some of the anarchist faq or any leftist theory tbh. At the very least, you’ll likely find the ideas interesting even if you don’t agree with everything. I tend to find most people who seriously engage with these ideas agree with a good deal of them. All we’re asking for is society to organise in a more just and equitable way, while disabling or limiting the avenues for corruption to take hold.
I once thought the same as you, we’re literally drowned in propaganda from birth so it’s extremely hard to break out from the dominant ideology, but there are better ways if you decide to evaluate the alternatives on their own merits and not pre-concieved notions of what they are.
shirro@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
I have been down libertarian and anarchist paths and in the end I want to live in a society where we are least likely to suffer at the hands of despots. There is no realistic path away from democratic society that doesn’t return us ultimately into the hands of kings and warlords. Democracy is imperfect but it’s the best chance we have to live the lives we want.
Not opposed to Marxist critiques of capitalism but left and right, authoritarians and anarchists both form a horseshoe. The end game for either tends to be a single party state controlled through force by a corrupt elite.
Social democracy or democratic socialism can both be made to work. Libertarianism and syndicalism deny human nature and experience.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I’m really not sure how anarchy leads to any kind of state when it’s specifically stateless. I’d say it’s far more resistant to corruption and centres around a more robust and empowering form of democracy than any representational system, which is inherently corruptible.
Horshoe theory is silly
Walk_blesseD@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Source: I made it the fuck up
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Anyone who says government isn’t needed is either a giant piece of shit or completely ignorant of what that would actually mean…
It rarely matters which is right, neither should ever be listened to under any circumstances
darthsundhaft@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Yeah, ‘cause we’re doing so well right now with governments everywhere, right?
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Good to see DJ Khaled still getting work
darthsundhaft@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Let’s goooooo
budget_biochemist@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
The disappointing community response to Covid-19 in 2020 demonstrated why we do need rules and enforcement of them.
Faced with an outbreak of a contagious disease, too many Australians refused to wear a mask, quarantine or distance until it was legally mandated.
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
we don’t need a government to do those things and be organised as a community
shads@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
But we kinda do. Because you can’t expect people to act reasonably or rationally.
I know a guy, let’s call him Bob, who got a warning from the police for aggressively looming over a man at the supermarket who was wearing a mask and trying to maintain healthy social distance.
Because Bob didn’t believe in masks or social distancing he percieved that behaviour as the other person being judgemental of him. When the other guy, rather reasonably, pointed out that he has cancer and didn’t want Bob, who was wearing his mask over his chin at the time, to be so close to him, the confrontation was on.
Bob still maintains to this day that he was just standing up for his rights as an Australian…
He is also firmly of the belief that Anthony Albanese is a traitor to the country and that John Howard is the best Prime Minister we have ever had…
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I don’t quite understand what your example is meant to demonstrate, but I think you’re confusing me with a libertarian (the weird fascist kind) or something which I am absolutely not.
We don’t need a government to keep everyone in line, that’s a fact. We can organise, decide rules, enforce them and have actual justice without a violent system of domination built on hierarchical power.
Taleya@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Uh covid very clearly showed that yes we fucking do.
When left to their own devices to do the right thing, way too many aussies went “Fuck yas” and put us all in danger
Sasha@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Can you explain why a government is the only way to keep people in line?
People will continue to be problematic, but we don’t need this one specific structure to deal with it. Imo it’s actually a particular ineffective and often cruel way to go about it.