Copyright is going away in a way that only benefits AI companies. WE still get burned at the stake for downloading shit from limewire even if we’re training our own AI models.
Comment on AI is mass decompiling games. That's both awesome and scary.
GonzoAtBarstow@lemmy.world 3 days ago
The compiler was never meant to be a source code obfuscating tool anyway, the real sea change is Copyright being ignored. I’ve always wanted Copyright to go away, but it’s going away in a way different than anything I’d imagined and I don’t know what to think about that.
The obvious upside is we can sort of return to a time when every game was openly moddable. 25 years ago almost every hot game was a mod of another game.
RickyRigatoni@piefed.zip 3 days ago
gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org 1 day ago
nah; even when you’re downloading apps like games, if you decompile them and basically just shuffle the code around enough (while still keeping it functionally equivalent) and then re-compile it, the copyright is off. i’m pretty sure some courts have actually decided that way in the past couple months. there’s a name for this exact thing that i’m currently forgetting.
i know this because it was in the news. software companies take open source projects with the GPL license, make AI rewrite all the code, now the code is no longer GPL licensed. the same thing obviously works for a whole lot of other things as well.
ChrysanthemumIndica@discuss.tchncs.de 3 days ago
I appreciate that at least we are all reeling from the implications of it all.
I think that’s a very interesting point about the compiler, companies have really leaned on that as a way to obfuscate code, some folks seem to think compiled is as good as encrypted? Just another lock on the door, I guess, and a free one at that.
I think it does make a ton of sense that an llm would be so capable at decompiling code… it’s basically just translating? But having decompiled some stuff myself years ago, it’s still sort of amazing to see such a tedious process automated.
Bleh, too many conflicting feelings… yes, let’s hope we reclaim some bits of culture taken from us! And let’s cross our fingers that copyright is destroyed in a manner that actually benefits people…
entwine@programming.dev 3 days ago
I think that’s a very interesting point about the compiler, companies have really leaned on that as a way to obfuscate code, some folks seem to think compiled is as good as encrypted? Just another lock on the door, I guess, and a free one at that.
Well, (depending on the language) compilation is a 100% lossy conversion. So when a game gets ‘decompiled’ with an LLM like this, they’re not restoring the original code. It’s just generating new code with the same behavior, which is functionally the same. People doing this generally wasn’t considered infringement, but it’s clear that having a machine automate it is a big problem. Even if we ignore the fact that the output of an LLM is legally tainted/grey area, the scale at which it can happen now means we need new laws to deal with it.
This is basically doing to software what the internet did to piracy. That led to the DMCA, which as shitty and corrupt as it is, at least succeeds at some of its main goals.
urushitan@kakera.kintsugi.moe 3 days ago
Additionally the bigger thing is once AI has the feel for understanding how an engine works, it can pretty easily be applied to another game with the same engine. That’s why nobody here gives a shit about unreal or cryengine games, but rather is reacting to RAGE or Nintendo games. The proprietary studio owned engines are the ones people care about
entwine@programming.dev 3 days ago
I’ve always wanted Copyright to go away, but it’s going away in a way different than anything I’d imagined and I don’t know what to think about that.
It’s interesting seeing all the people who used to complain about copyright now realizing that copyright does in fact protect small artists, and it’s actually the reason why anyone was able to make a living as an artist at all.
On the one hand, it’s good that everyone is starting to get on the same page, but it sucks that things always have to get worse before they get better. This is a good opportunity to perform some introspection and think about what kind of mistakes led you to the wrong conclusion on this issue. Maybe it’ll be constructive and helpful for other issues.
GonzoAtBarstow@lemmy.world 3 days ago
This is a good opportunity to perform some introspection and think about what kind of mistakes led you to the wrong conclusion on this issue.
Me personally? Copyright is failing your advocated purposes of protecting artists work and their living, and living up to my belief that it was the wrong tool all along. Maybe you could use some of that.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 days ago
The thing is, just getting rid of it is worse.
The tool is done, the current implementation has been warped to favor corporations. That doesn’t mean throwing out the tool is the answer
GonzoAtBarstow@lemmy.world 2 days ago
I don’t advocate that, the reply was to the guy who responded to my comment as if he had won an argument we never had, and then went on to ask that I examine all my other life choices because I might be wrong about them too.
entwine@programming.dev 3 days ago
What a shame.
gandalf_der_13te@feddit.org 1 day ago
It’s interesting seeing all the people who used to complain about copyright now realizing that copyright does in fact protect small artists, and it’s actually the reason why anyone was able to make a living as an artist at all.
nah, the artist income game is even more rigged than the capitalism people like complaining about. basically 99% of all art revenue goes to 0.1% of artists, while the bottom 50% of artists get basically 0% of the income. it’s incredibly unevenly distributed. the income inequality among artists is even more extreme than it is for wage workers.
entwine@programming.dev 1 day ago
basically 99% of all art revenue goes to 1% of artists, while the bottom 50% of artists get basically 0% of the income.
99% of what art revenue? There isn’t a global “art account” that gets divided among anyone who calls themselves an artist. Individuals earn what they earn.
The people pumping out mainstream movies are obviously going to earn more than those doing furry porn commissions on the fediverse.
zlatko@programming.dev 3 days ago
It’s not really copyright that you want to go away. It’s corporations exploiting the work of individuals. There are countries that have much saner, a lot more ethical laws around it.
The AI issue here is their theft, and since the theft is not addressed, it’s going to get ugly, and the big game producers will just lock games behind networks , so unless you’re online and likely paying a subscription, you ain’t gonna be pLaying thaT game.
VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 3 days ago
Decompilation offers you the possibility of cutting out network-required features, if you dream a little bigger.
jaycifer@lemmy.world 2 days ago
They’re not talking about individual features, they’re talking about locking the entire game behind a network (such as game streaming) so the game can’t be downloaded to be decompiled in the first place.
VibeSurgeon@piefed.social 2 days ago
It’s been tried before, but the fundamental limitations on networking- not to mention the compute you have to spend in data centers to run it - makes it pretty unlikely to happen, especially as a means of preventing piracy.