Comment

You’re being upvoted, but, what experience do you have mountaineering training? Any? Have you even got hiking experience

It feels like you’re just saying stuff that sounds good.

A good company costs 60K minimum, and another 20K if you want 4L of oxygen.
No, you cant just spend 60K and climb either.
You MUST have 7000m experience, which eliminates mountains like Island Peak and Mera (which was the FULL intention), and it means you have experience staying overnight at altitude.
Don’t speak on behalf of the locals. I personally knew 2 different Sherpas who want to climb Everest. One did, the other wanted to (and hopefully has already).
Preparing the camps is a matter of time primarily.
You carry your own gear at 8000m+ which is basically 30% Oxygen, and you cannot acclimatise.
Clients still do many acclimatisation climbs. Getting the camps prepared is basically a matter of time (months).
Whilst I agree a lot of it is just rich people trying to get attention, don’t underestimate the level of fitness it takes. Based on my experience a huge number of people can’t even get to base camp (which is only 5400m). People doing Everest don’t simply wake up and do acclimatisation walks. Even at 6000M, you’re at 40% Oxygen, and its already a bit hard to breath… Every step feels a lot harder
Don’t forget, that a lot of summit guides live at 4000m+, so, they can set up the camps a lot quicker.
Good companies still pay sherpas the FULL amount even if summit/climbing is completely cancelled
I haven’t climbed Everest, but, don’t underestimate the fear of being dropped off in a glacier for the first time, and being told you’ll fall into a crevasse at some point during training. It takes courage too.

source

Sort:hotnew top

YawningNostalgia@thelemmy.club ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Re: point 6, oxygen content of air is usually 21%. Did you mean it’s 30% of that normal 21%?

source
- auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Yeah… In terms of a percentage of normal o2 percentage I think… I’m not a medical expert (so, i only know the basics)
  
  mtnath.com/altitude/ shows both ways though (and the way I used).
  
  So, I was actually wrong Island peak was approximately 45% percent. Everest is approximately 33% (they were off the top of my head). I just find that calculating this way is easier to understand.
  
  It also goes into AMS, HAPE and HACE, which I actually forgot to mention at all. But basically, you either feel sick with AMS (I saw someone turn 20 years older, and go completely grey at 4500m), your brain can swell in your skull (HACE), or HAPE is when your lungs start filling with fluid.
  
  Money can’t buy immunity from these conditions, and, whether anyone helps, doesn’t make easier for clients either (in fact, it makes it worse, if the help keeps pushing you). The reason the person I saw turned gray, was precisely because only myself and Sherpas were saying to go down. The rest of the group was encouraging him to push on.
  
  source
  - YawningNostalgia@thelemmy.club ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I am a medical expert. I’m not trying to be overly pedantic but my point was that regular sea level air is around 21% oxygen so you were making it sound like the air at high elevations is higher than it is at sea level.
    
    It’s not a wording issue. The link you posted has a table that says 100% O2 at sea level. Literally every single figure in the chart on that page is wrong because they list it as “%O2” instead of saying percent of baseline, which would be out of 21%. So at sea level you’re getting 100% of the normal oxygen in the air, which is 21%, and that declines, but the table is written incorrectly. It says that 8848 meters above sea level the content of air would be 33% oxygen. The table under that is more accurate.
    
    It’s just a bad table and bad writing. Idk if I’m explaining any of this properly.
    
    source
    auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    It’s good to get a medical expert to explain. I’m not sure I fully understand, however, I have noticed in the past 5-10 years, all the sites have slowly been moving away from the above graph (I can’t even find the other 2 sites that used to have it).
    
    So, the evidence seems to suggest you’re right. but, wouldn’t surprise me if its bad writing. I generally use the info off Alan Arnette’s site instead
    
    source
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

A good company costs 60K minimum

You get how that’s even grosser, right?

Don’t speak on behalf of the locals. I personally knew 2 different Sherpas

‘Don’t speak on behalf of the locals, allow me, who knew two dudes, to do so instead’? No, I think I’ll listen to reporting by the BBC, who talked to people whose livelihoods didn’t depend on telling them what they wanted to hear. Obviously some locals do want to climb, but you are delusional if you believe nobody is doing it for money to support their family.

Everything else you’re saying here is irrelevant, I never said it wasn’t physically challenging. It’s just immoral to climb Everest due to the local exploitation and environmental degradation inherent to climbing it. Outside of the nearly 20 lbs of waste each person creates climbing the mountain (the majority of which doesn’t get removed), there are also deforestation issues from locals over harvesting wood to meet tourist demand.

There is not an amount of explanation that is going to move me beyond those facts.

source
- auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  What’s gross at this point, is that watching a bbc documentary doesn’t make you a professional lol .You know no dudes, so, I know more dudes than you.
  
  You’re not even getting some of the basics right.
  
  On both my trips they only burnt dried yak dung and even the hot water either uses massive reflector solar mirrors or gas . Nobody is carrying wood to any of the camps. Do you think at camp 4 they’re sitting oxygen deprived around a nice fire which produces more co2?
  
  Are you running on full renewables at home? Any renewables? Or, is there a double standard? Its ok for you to burn wood at home?
  
  When you go hiking, or pull over on a long drive, do you use a wag bag? If not, you’re not any better than them…
  
  The climbing permit has now changed and people have to carry down some garbage, and there is a lot of work going into cleanup. Yes it’s a problem, but it doesn’t make climbing any easier.
  
  At kala pattar actually (5500m), I actually saw a mouse which was likely eating scraps. If anything, ironically there is actually more life due to tourists because it’s barren even at that altitude
  
  I’m not sure what you do with your free time, but it better be a lot of volunteering…
  
  Your phone was produced by someone who didn’t want to work but had to
  
  At this point you’re throwing random things you heard from the documentary, saying “it’s relevant” at the wall and hoping something sticks whilst trying to portray yourself as superior.
  
  Go do a mountaineering course, and then report back at how little of an accomplishment even 8000m is, let alone an altitude where your body is dying, and you have limited time to summit and return before it does.
  
  source
  - Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    It’s clear at this point you’re not able to have an unemotional conversation about it. Your anecdotal experience as someone dropping the cost of a down payment on a house on a vacation to a place with serious, long lasting issues with the tourist trade and talking to two dudes you are paying isn’t the same as a team of journalists investigating. You keep saying documentary for some reason, which is only revealing you didn’t even bother reading the very extensive article I linked. If you’d like to discuss specific points from or you’re going to have to read it. It’s also grasping at straws to pretend using electricity in a city is just like the environmental destruction or human exploitation happening to climb the mountain.
    
    I hope you find less destructive and exploitative hobbies in the future.
    
    source
    auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Lol. You’re sitting there on your phone created by exploited workers, with your HVAC turned on burning coal, watching tv burning coal, using hot water burning gas (likely not even using a heat pump). Your environment footprint is obviously excellent. Are you at least a vegetarian (I’m not, but just wondering if you’re even doing the bare minimum)
    
    You were caught out lying like “they burn wood”.
    
    I literally do hiking as a hobby, which is likely less environmentally damaging than you sitting at home on your computer.I operate a free hiking group in my free time
    
    And I literally am friends with a few Nepalese people that I met in Nepal… who apparently added me on Facebook after getting exploited (apparently)
    
    Sorry, you have no clue whatsoever.
    
    I suggest your next doco is on space, so you can pretend you’re an astronaut. Oh wait, Neil Armstrong is gross too apparently.
    
    source
auzy1@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Also, one other fact that people don’t realise, is that using oxygen makes it sound like a cakewalk, but its not.

Your breath has water vapour in it that freezes and accumulates. So, you’re even competing with your oxygen mask getting frozen shut apparently at high altitude. At 8000m+ you need it, and to sleep at 8000m, you apparently still need some oxygen, or you gag.

Apparently oxygen bottle theft is also common.

Once you’re at 8000m (camp 4), you’re basically on your own… Yes, its a bigger accomplishment to set up camps and carry everything up, but, it doesn’t mean that even getting to 7000M isn’t a huge achievement (Everest is 8900m).

I am planning to do a 700km walk hopefully within the next year, and, I don’t think anyone is going to downplay it simply because I have done food drops (and had others helping with food drops).

source