Yeah but drinking is inherently bad for you. Whether you “have a problem” or not, everyone would be healthier not drinking.
Comment on Anon makes some changes
hoppolito@mander.xyz 1 day agoI get what you’re saying, but would you adopt the same stance for example for gambling or drinking alcohol? They’re not necessarily bad per se, it’s the compulsion and the trigger points it evokes for some people where I think it’s completely fine to just accept that for them not doing it at all - even if for a time - might be the correct move.
Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Comparing a natural behavior to dependency on addictive chemicals is a bit silly. I’m not sure you’re taking this seriously. And before you come back with “masturbation releases chemicals we can form a dependency on”, literally SO many other mundane things have the same effect. Conservatives and fascists always care about this one in particular though, and that’s the real reason we’re talking about it.
hoppolito@mander.xyz 1 day ago
But that’s exactly what I am saying, there’s a wide variety of actions that - on their own - aren’t really harmful if done in moderation. Sure gambling and drinking are more extreme examples, but you yourself agree that these actions ‘release chemicals we can form a dependency on’. So does gambling, so does overeating, so does masturbation. If it’s an issue for the person and they’re not doing it for a while then I also don’t see the use in singling this out in the list of things here. If it helps the person get motivated/be proud and engage positive feedback loops to not do it, why single masturbation out as useless?
Of course, ‘never fapping’ and automagically being a good person is an absurd manosphere grift to push. But if they were following a specific diet which in itself also doesn’t turn your life around but gets the ball rolling would you have the same stance? If it’s part of a process of change for a person I just don’t see the sense in such strong antipathy for this single case, I suppose.
In other words, of the list of things here - cold showers, room tidying, brushing teeth, not eating like crap - it’s the masturbation this thread singles out and tells the person: no that thing, you should definitely continue doing that. Just seems unproductive to me.
SarahValentine@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Who brought that idea in? You just made that up.
What we’re really talking about is the equivalent of following fad diets because a fascist with an agenda is trying to bend vulnerable people to a cause they don’t understand, using psychological knowledge and conditioning techniques. These people are not consulting licensed professionals, they’re not talking to psychiatrists or therapists, they’re listening to Joe Rogen podcasts and Facebook propaganda.
So while all these other things you talk about might have some merit to them, that’s not what we’re really talking about, nor what the problem actually is. The problem is these men live in a society that simultaneously tells them their desires are bad, show unrealistic body images and other impossible standards, tells them they need to work on themselves in superficial ways, and all while forcing them to live as wage slaves while the ultra-rich laugh at the hoops they’re getting people to jump through.
Figure it out.
hoppolito@mander.xyz 1 day ago
Oh, that’s what I understood from the thread starting with:
But I agree with your points, in general.
I guess where I am talking past you (or ‘listening’ past you, as it were) is that my argument is focused on this specific instance of someone doing something and I understood people to react with discouragement. You’re embedding the discussion into a wider societal angle. It still seems somewhat strange to bring it up in this instance as the original post also doesn’t mention any of the points you touch on and the ideas thus seem similarly ‘made up’ and brought in, for this case, to me.
But I definitely don’t have an argument with the points themselves, they are well made.