Comment on Without hierarchies/authority figures, the bootlickers would be totally lost. 🤠

• BurgerBaron@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I think they’re born weak too, but both things can be explanations without it being an excuse.

  Small town lifer here, the worst children I knew grew up very predictably. IMO, most people don’t really change much at all with age.

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  • NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    They don’t, sadly, and what makes it worse is the endless amounts of religious indoctrination and bullshit media constantly feeding us the narrative that people in general grow and learn over time and become better people, and that sentiment has been internalized at every possible level of society at large, but (as a general rule, nothing is universal) things couldn’t be further from the truth.

    I’m glad my Pop is a badass and taught me _how_to think and not what to think.

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    • BurgerBaron@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      They don’t, sadly, and what makes it worse is the endless amounts of religious indoctrination and bullshit media constantly feeding us the narrative that people in general grow and learn over time and become better people, and that sentiment has been internalized at every possible level of society at large, but (as a general rule, nothing is universal) things couldn’t be further from the truth.

      I agree with you here of course, quite strongly.

      I’m glad my Pop is a badass and taught me how to think and not what to think.

      So that’s the thing I think about a lot. How much influence did he really truly have on you vs you both just happening to be like-minded to begin with? Ties in with my thoughts on free will vs determinism too. My belief in a weak mind being born doomed now comes into this picture. But I’m one of those annoying compatibilists because my own father has moved slowly from staunch conservative to centrist over time. Maybe only because I’m his kid, who really knows. I’m 35 and only just got him to finally admit he was pretending to be Christian to stay with my mother. I always suspected.

      Here’s where I’m coming from, so the perspective can hopefully makes more sense:

      • born in a monocultural conservative town 1990 99.5% white people. Seriously I can only remember one black kid in school.

      • my mother co-founded her own Baptist church.

      • I wasn’t rebellious, and I even attended youth groups and bible camps regularly.

      • my 2nd earliest memory I can still recall is fucking surreal: In a public elementary school, the principal lead a morning prayer once a week in the morning gym assembly. Everyone. Everyone stood up student/admin/teacher/janitor. Everyone bowed their heads to repeat the principal’s prayer. Except one of my classmates one day, she remained seated. This blew my mind. I sat down with her, and she gave me a wide grin. Who knows why, but this moment was cemented into my skull surrounded by the overwhelming majority and choosing to sit out of their mindless tradition.

      I never at any point believed in any gods, nor was I at any point a conservative. How could this be given the environment I was raised in?

      I think it’s simply because I was born with innate critical thinking. I also did not believe what anyone not even my own parents when they told me things at face value. The early internet and the library was where I went to see if something I was told was true or not.

      ~80% of humans are theists, it’s incredibly sad.

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      • NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I don’t think there is a born weak mind in that sense, it seems like an out or an excuse to me, we are all the same animal, and I don’t think will is purely innate or nature, all things are a combination of both with different ratios depending on the person.

        I can for sure say my dad had a severe impact on me questioning things and doing my best to find objectivity before I form my opinion on things, which lead me to planting the seed of rebellion and defiance in myself. Be it religion, politics, philosophy, authority, or what have you, he never put his views into my head about it and encouraged me to examine things more deeply when I wasn’t. Indoctrination is a bitch, and he bent over backwards to make sure he was doing the opposite. A lot of personality is innate and unchangeable, but if you’re not fucked by that then ideology and opinions are malleable, it just depends on weather or not you’ve learned to be molded by others or yourself, and religious indoctrination from birth fucks up all of the gauges if there isn’t anything else to add influence, which I saw a lot as I also grew up around a very religious community that often shunned me for questioning, I was luckily taught self definition.

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  • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Everyone is born weak, what kind of statement is that? Babies are not strong.

    Who a person becomes as an adult is a product of their development throughout their formative years. There are many factors in that, so it’s far more complex than simple linear correlations, but overall having a shitty upbringing deeply contributes to a person’s likelihood of turning out shitty.

    The cycle breakers who overcome it do in spite of it all, and are the exceptions rather than the rule. They also likely found support in other areas of their life whether that’s through friends, councilors, mentors, therapists, teachers, or what have you.

    But someone who found none of those refuges would have extreme difficulty overcoming patterns ingrained through upwards of two decades of narcissistic abuse and emotional neglect starting from infancy.

    It’s not because they were “born flawed,” and that’s a very problematic assumption. It’s also essentialist, so not very post-modern of you.

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    • BurgerBaron@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I don’t debate those who lead and end with insults.

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      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        What were the insults? Everything I said was factual.

        I didn’t call you a dumbass, I said your statement was essentialist and therefore not very post-modern. That’s simply true, and if you think that’s insulting then that’s because you can’t handle being corrected.

        And if you think saying “babies are weak” is insulting, then you have very flawed expectations for humanity. From your original statement, you said some people are born weak. I corrected you by saying everyone is born weak.

        So if anything, you’re the one being insulting. Because you have no understanding for sympathy for the helpless state in which we were all introduced into this world.

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