Comment on Kia drops the ball again on their vehicles

• FishFace@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Why will stop-start cause additional engine wear? It’s literally off. It only kicks in when the engine, and hence engine oil, is warm, so there should be no extra wear caused by starting.

  The fuel savings can be significant, but more significant is the reduced emissions. I guess you don’t care about that though. Fuck all the children breathing in the polluted air, right?

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  • Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    As far as I’ve read around, S&S mainly wears out the starter.

    I don’t understand how the system could cause problems on slippery roads, but if it works on OP’s car like it does in mine, the way it’s designed to kick in is dumb, infuriating and counterproductive.

    I have to disable it every time I start the car, because otherwise it would just stop the engine and restart it immediately whenever I get to a stop sign (which burns more fuel than just staying on).
    BUT, if I want S&S to work, I need to re-enable it BEFORE I slow down, otherwise it just doesn’t - but I can’t predict how long I have to wait when I stop before I get to the sign, if I could they wouldn’t have put a stop sign there in the first place!

    So I either:

    • keep S&S enabled and disable it at every busy junction before I put it in neutral, then enable it again;
    • forget about it and always keep it on, wasting fuel, increasing emissions, prematurely having my starter replaced to prevent failures in the middle of busy roads;
    • forget about it and always keep it off or just never put the car in neutral, which is what all driving schools in my country teach drivers to do by the way (people have failed their tests by not preventing the engine shutdown), and possibly fully shut the engine off at my not-taking-drivers-license-test discretion.

    And my car isn’t even a KIA, I can’t imagine how bad the S&S system would be on a KIA!

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    • Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      You know you are actually supposed to come to a full stop at stop signs right?

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      • Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        You know I’m talking about the Start & Stop system and not the Keep Rolling Slowly & Stop, right?

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    • FishFace@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Engines with start-stop have beefier starter motors. Electric motors can be sized for basically any task - the motors in my EV are not going to wear out and their duty cycle is crazy compared to a starter motor! So it’s just a matter of cost and size.

      Sounds insane to require drivers to disable start-stop to pass a test - where’s that? You mention stop signs so that sounds like the US. I’m afraid I don’t really trust US driving tests to accomplish anything sensible…

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      • Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        You mention stop signs so that sounds like the US

        Wait hold on… why’s that? Is there any juristiction where there are traffic laws, but no stop signs?

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      • Sonotsugipaa@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

        Sounds insane […]

        This is in Italy, it IS insane, and admittedly I don’t know how much my grievances against S&S are mitigated by automatic transmissions (never used in tests).
        Tests do not require you to disable S&S, instructors simply tell you not to let out the clutch while in neutral to avoid it, but the strictest examiners see engine shutdowns as “failure to correctly operate the vehicle”, like stalling - if it happens once, we all make mistakes, if it happens twice, come on man, if it happens three times k gg bb, it doesn’t matter whether it’s a feature of the car.

        Most of the people who turn S&S off do so because they find it annoying, I myself try to use it effectively but I prefer driving responsibly rather than playing chess with a half-metric-ton deadly weapon.

        There are arguments that having your engine off on the road is unsafe, I guess those examiners are just being zealous? If they even exist, I’m trusting my instructor’s tales on this factoid, but drivers’ ed here is very strict so I’m inclined to believe him.

        I do know that S&S systems require better starters, but that just means they cost more, right? And even if the increased cost is marginal, the increased fuel consumption on short stops is still a problem.

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  • Zeko9381@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    This video explains it well youtu.be/qu8cJ2t_ja8

    Basically the engine experiences the most wear when starting, because it doesn’t yet have oil pressure. That takes around 7 seconds with the engine featured in the video.

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    • Lemmyoutofhere@lemmy.ca ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      That’s only on a cold start.

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    • FishFace@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Typically it experiences most wear at start because the oil isn’t up to temperature. When stopped at a red light, oil is still coating all the components, so while the pressure may be low, it will only be a momentary increase in wear. 7 seconds is very little compared to the time it takes the engine to get up to temperature on a cold morning, which is wear the majority of wear will still come from.

      These systems have been in common use for like 15 years or something, and first became commercially available over 25 years ago. We’d have actual hard evidence if it were causing excess wear.

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