Comment on ISO 26300

• A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The former, it becomes easy and “natural” fast, as you memorize the stuff, eventually you become so used to being able to specify how the document should be specifically that using WYSIWYG stuff like word is awful, you start to fight with the document editor…

  But there is stuff like overleaf if you want something less direct, it is still LaTeX but it has tools and Whatnots to do it easier.

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  • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Thanks!

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• iamkindasomeone@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I do both, but usually I use markdown to write the texts because it features basic formatting like headers and bold text, but it’s faster and easier to write. Then I use pandoc to convert it into .tex and do the final editing and adjusting directly in Latex.

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  • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I believe Zettlr editor uses pandoc to convert MD to LaTeX.

    Indeed needs some manual tinkering, as long as I remember, at least since MD is not so feature-rich :D

    But thanks for the recommendation!

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    • iamkindasomeone@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes, I also use Zettlr and it works fine. Especially with the Zotero integration. But you are right, it sometimes needs some tweaks to work fine.

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      • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Zotero is straight up godsend - especially with some useful plugins. Figuring out how Zettlr integration works took a while, but it was fairly convenient at the end.

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• thebestaquaman@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Do you actually write all the headers and stuff

  I’ve used Latex as my go-to tool for writing anything that needs formatting for years, and I’m not quite sure I understand what you mean?

  I start off my document with a documentclass statement, which is one line…? And then I will sometimes usepackage a couple things for further document-wide formatting, but we’re still talking about a small handful of lines (like 5-10 at most).

  The preamble can grow quite large for big documents with a lot of specific formatting, but I have some boilerplate preambles with the most common packages lying around that I can copy-paste in. Usually however, the preamble grows as you’re writing the document and you add things dynamically as you need them.

  I would love to give you a better answer to your question, since my impression is that pretty much no one that swaps to Latex ever looks back, and I would love to help you learn. Feel free to expand on what you mean by “all the headers and stuff” and I’ll try to give a better answer :)

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  • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Oh, this is based on my first impression I had a while back when I noped out of it :D

    This is less of a detailed problem description and more like a scream over perceived complexity of something that should be so simple, especially for someone who’s very far from programming or advanced computing overall.

    Outside of documentclass, there are all the paragraph, section, title, there are all the packages introducing all sorts of things (like, why there’s a need for external PACKAGES to do the very basics?!) etc.

    Tables are straight up scary to write in LaTeX, you insert all the parameters and then write it out like some sort of matrix but without any decent sctructure; and plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it.

    Overall, it feels like some unnecessarily nerdy way to edit docs. Probably powerful, but same sort of powerful as editing configs to customize things. Please, make it any sort of user-friendly!

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    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Ahh, now I understand! I’ll try my best to make it less scary :)

      To start off

      why is there a need for external packages for a text document?

      There usually isn’t, as long as you only want a simple document. The most basic thinkable document would be

      \documentclass{article}
      \begin{document}
      This is the text in my document
      \end{document}
      

      However, you’ll likely want a title and author, so you can start off with

      \documentclass{article}
      \title{Fishes are nice}
      \author{Definitely not Jason Mamoa}
      \begin{document}
      
      \maketitle
      
      \section{Introduction}
      This is a text about why fishes are nice.
      
      \end{document}
      

      You have your “Super basic document”, with at title and author. You can make simple formatting changes by modifying the documentclass statement at the top. My recommendation with all the external packages (usepackage) is to look them up one-by-one as you need them. You’ll typically find a small handfull of packages that you need very often, and then you’ll probably end up copy-pasting those declarations over whenever you create a new document. For most basic documents I’m using like 2-5 packages at most (fancy math fonts, hyperlinks, pretty bibliography, etc.)

      Tables are straight up scary They take a little getting used to, I agree. For someone working a lot with tables, I would recommend getting used to them, but if you only very rarely need them, there are “graphical editors” that let you build a table in a GUI and then give you the Latex code for it. Overleaf has an integrated “visual editing” mode that makes the barrier to entry lower. However I don’t really recommend it for someone that really wants to learn to use Latex, because I think it prevents people from progressing past the very basics.

      plotting - I didn’t even try to comprehend it I’ve used Latex for years, specifically writing documents with a lot of plots. I have yet to attempt to learn to plot directly in Latex. I know some people that will create figures and plots directly in Latex, and I respect them. I use inkscape for figures, and python for plotting, and can get stuff looking pretty awesome that way. Learning to draw/plot directly in Latex is by no means a must.

      Please, make it any sort of user-friendly! As with other powerful tools, I think people are often overwhelmed coming in because of the massive number of possibilities, and the fine-grained control that is possible. My recommendation is to start out with something like the above, and progressively add complexity as you need it. Most people don’t require more than basic section (and sub- subsub- etc.) headers, tables, figures, and equations. In that case, you’ll need like 3-5 external packages and 3-5 “commands” (stuff like \begin{equation}). If you start out with the above example, you’ll probably learn the basics on your own in a couple hours :)

      I’ve held some latex-courses for beginners, so if you want, I could send you the “basic starting file” that the people taking the course have completed writing (with help) after about two hours :) I’ve been told that most of them feel pretty comfortable learning on their own once they have that.

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      • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Wow, I appreciate the time and effort you put into this, and yes, it sounds a bit reassuring :)

        I probably feel the way computer noobs feel when someone here enthusiastically calls them to join Linux lol (I already did, no need to advocate here! :D)

        And yes, with that in mind, I’ll give it another spin. I’d like to have that basic file example!

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