I’m just having a hard time believing that such people actually exist outside of China or Russia. I think to a real Maoist that didn’t grow up in the Chinese propaganda bubble it would be obvious that neither one of them are really implementing Marxist/leninist ideology as much as they are implementing good old fashioned authoritarianism.
Comment on Something we all can agree on
SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.ml 3 weeks agoReally use your noggin for this one.
Why would the Russian and Chinese governments want to influence a small collection of web forums with no real influence on the wider world?
No, they’re not here, they’re on Reddit. As are the US and Israeli governments, for that matter. Online influence campaigns are carried out by governments in places where they’ll be most effective, and by more than just your spooky oriental despotisms.
Now, why might .ml users, in general, be generally pro-china? The people who made Lemmy as a platform, and the folks who were first to adopt it (instances like Lemmygrad and Hexbear), were ideologically Marxist. Specifically, Marxist-Leninist. Marxist-Leninists, generally, support the existence of actually existing socialist States, as being socialist.
Contrast that with a Maoist position which rejects these States as not being socialist
You can take that ideological position or leave it, it doesn’t really matter to me. But what’s the more likely explanation here?
That the people who made, and first adopted, Lemmy as a platform tended to have a certain ideology, and so the early instances, like .ml, have people with a broadly shared opinion on a certain topic?
Or that the Chinese government, who probably had no damn clue what Lemmy is, is actively devoting money, and hundreds of people to influence a tiny speck of a Web forum where some nerds circle jerk about Linux, instead of focusing on influencing Facebook or Reddit.
realitista@lemmus.org 3 weeks ago
Diva@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
I know a bunch of people IRL from in person organizing in the US who are ML/maoist and have positive opinions of China, but it’s generally the kind of critical support you see on hexbear. A lot of them are trans/NB and have grown up in the US propaganda bubble and reject it.
Also pretty sure both lemmy.ml and hexbear.net are blocked in china. It’s probably just because they block all foreign social media as a general practice though.
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 3 weeks ago
both lemmy.ml and hexbear.net are blocked in china
Correct, I had to move to this instance when I was traveling in China. Its nice.
because they block all foreign social media as a general practice
Kinda, but lemmy.world? Not blocked, despite being bigger than .ml and hb.
shoo@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Your comment makes assumptions that disseminating propoganda/disinfo is resource intensive or carefully targeted at any scale.
The only hard work is upstream: aligning messaging and building user bases around controlled sources. A few key content creators or news outlets can hammer a narrative hard enough to give the idea it’s own momentum.
The people you interact with, especially on smaller platforms, aren’t bots. Bots and malicious actors exist to amplify messages in the main stream (up votes, shares, reposts, etc…) and they generally don’t have to interact much beyond putting up the facade of a normal user. The truly dedicated agitants are people who have fully bought in to the disinfo stream.
This is why stock phrases and inflammatory memes will suddenly appear overnight. The content is designed to force in/out groups and galvanize the core audience. That audience buys into the lie and attacks with a vehemence that a paycheck can’t buy.
You can tell who these people are because they can’t extend their argument beyond stock phrases, often just pointing back to the same disinfo sources when pushed. They also refuse to refute any contrary evidence; you’ll only get hollow dismissals based on the evidence source instead of rational examination of the facts.
Dasus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Why wouldn’t they? Why would Russian or Chinese people be any worse at using internet platforms than we are?
Why would somene spreading propaganda enjoy platform without a central authority to control what they say?
Hmm yeah, that’s a tough one. A really really tough nut to crack. Just no answer.
If only I got a euro for every time I read this general bullshit denial of propaganda and disinfo, “there’s no propaganda on Lemmy”, I’d be a rich man