Data? No, because there is none. And I have read every.single.study. They are all fucked in some way or another whether it’s methodology or the stats or the sample size/composition. Not a single real in vivo study. None. There is exactly one researcher in Greece doing decent work, and that’s it. I took a career change from my previous and now present career and worked in pharma and biotech research.
Former smoker, current vaper. I know inhaling anything other than clean air isn’t good for me, and I know nicotine addiction isn’t good. I plan on quitting, and I’m making decent progress to that point.
But it bugs the shit out of me when people try to act like it’s worse than cigarettes. It’s not. Shitty Chinese vapes marketed to kids that we don’t know the ingredients of? Sure, ban em. Black market vapes made in some dudes garage with oil? Absolutely track em down and end that man’s whole career.
But properly made, regulated vape juice in a rebuildable tank? Leave me the fuck alone. Please. Please do not take the thing that has helped millions of people quit smoking!
Can you link me any decent articles to help the next time someone says some dumb reactionary shit?
Yeah alas the subreddit for it did a lot of the heavy lifting for me - they took apart every study (I helped) and had some good sidebar (or was it pinned, been so long I cannot remember) info to counter the “dumb reactionary shit.” I am pretty sure the sub got baninated, but I haven’t been back to reddit since I rage quit after the API debacle.
When I first started vaping in 2011 (after smoking two packs a day for decades), there were a lot of solid, research-based web boards, but I think social media killed them, as it did so much.
(Diacetyl, the chemical responsible, is also found in cigarettes, 2,000x more than in vape juice, and cigarettes have never caused popcorn lung. The only recorded case afaik comes from the powder form being used in a popcorn factory with no respirators, and it acted like asbestos sorta where it settles in the lungs. That’s a far cry from the liquid form that was in some vape juice before the freakout, which has never shown to cause popcorn lung, just like it doesn’t with cigarettes.)
Inb4 vitamin A oil
(Black market weed carts made by some dickhead in his garage who didn’t know what he was doing. Legalize it already ffs.)
My guy/gal/nonbinary pal: pls see the references in this medicpro.london/…/vaping-and-popcorn-lung-separat… Diacetyl has been widely banned since 2014 in all but the most trash Chinese vape juice, and quality vendors never used it in the first place.
Also the supposed cases of popcorn come from one source. Some dude in California who cut his cannabis juice with it, and in every single case the kids that got sick were using his juice in vape pens, not actually vaping. It’s Friday night here and I’d rather not track the story down but if you really want it I’ll find it.
As a former life long smoker, vaping (which is the front line treatment for cessation in the UK) saved my life. Now, however, the shops pushing disposable vapes with super high nicotine salts on to kids - which is illegal almost everywhere - they need to die in a fire. The kids don’t get hooked on "vape;’ they get hooked on nicotina because those damn things are the equivalent of smoking two or three regular cigarets in one puff.
Though it was never popcorn lung from the weed vapes, like I said that idiot used vitamin E acetate (think I mistyped and said A earlier but same diff.) Didn’t know he was in CA though I thought he was midwest.
I am someone who used to do medical research for a lot of money. I’ve interviewed chairs of FDA committees, trial designers, and active trial leads on phase III (mostly) research in pharma and biologics. I still have access to PupMed via my old friends.
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Data? No, because there is none. And I have read every.single.study. They are all fucked in some way or another whether it’s methodology or the stats or the sample size/composition. Not a single real in vivo study. None. There is exactly one researcher in Greece doing decent work, and that’s it. I took a career change from my previous and now present career and worked in pharma and biotech research.
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Former smoker, current vaper. I know inhaling anything other than clean air isn’t good for me, and I know nicotine addiction isn’t good. I plan on quitting, and I’m making decent progress to that point.
But it bugs the shit out of me when people try to act like it’s worse than cigarettes. It’s not. Shitty Chinese vapes marketed to kids that we don’t know the ingredients of? Sure, ban em. Black market vapes made in some dudes garage with oil? Absolutely track em down and end that man’s whole career.
But properly made, regulated vape juice in a rebuildable tank? Leave me the fuck alone. Please. Please do not take the thing that has helped millions of people quit smoking!
Can you link me any decent articles to help the next time someone says some dumb reactionary shit?
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah alas the subreddit for it did a lot of the heavy lifting for me - they took apart every study (I helped) and had some good sidebar (or was it pinned, been so long I cannot remember) info to counter the “dumb reactionary shit.” I am pretty sure the sub got baninated, but I haven’t been back to reddit since I rage quit after the API debacle.
When I first started vaping in 2011 (after smoking two packs a day for decades), there were a lot of solid, research-based web boards, but I think social media killed them, as it did so much.
dharmacurious@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
That’s a real shame about the web boards. I miss real forums :(
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Can we do this for all the other drugs as well?
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Inb4 popcorn lung lmao.
(Diacetyl, the chemical responsible, is also found in cigarettes, 2,000x more than in vape juice, and cigarettes have never caused popcorn lung. The only recorded case afaik comes from the powder form being used in a popcorn factory with no respirators, and it acted like asbestos sorta where it settles in the lungs. That’s a far cry from the liquid form that was in some vape juice before the freakout, which has never shown to cause popcorn lung, just like it doesn’t with cigarettes.)
Inb4 vitamin A oil
(Black market weed carts made by some dickhead in his garage who didn’t know what he was doing. Legalize it already ffs.)
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My guy/gal/nonbinary pal: pls see the references in this medicpro.london/…/vaping-and-popcorn-lung-separat… Diacetyl has been widely banned since 2014 in all but the most trash Chinese vape juice, and quality vendors never used it in the first place.
Also the supposed cases of popcorn come from one source. Some dude in California who cut his cannabis juice with it, and in every single case the kids that got sick were using his juice in vape pens, not actually vaping. It’s Friday night here and I’d rather not track the story down but if you really want it I’ll find it.
As a former life long smoker, vaping (which is the front line treatment for cessation in the UK) saved my life. Now, however, the shops pushing disposable vapes with super high nicotine salts on to kids - which is illegal almost everywhere - they need to die in a fire. The kids don’t get hooked on "vape;’ they get hooked on nicotina because those damn things are the equivalent of smoking two or three regular cigarets in one puff.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Thanks for backing up what I said.
Though it was never popcorn lung from the weed vapes, like I said that idiot used vitamin E acetate (think I mistyped and said A earlier but same diff.) Didn’t know he was in CA though I thought he was midwest.
figjam@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
Are you a lung doctor or are you someone who vapes and wants to be able to maintain the illusion that it isn’t harmful?
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I am someone who used to do medical research for a lot of money. I’ve interviewed chairs of FDA committees, trial designers, and active trial leads on phase III (mostly) research in pharma and biologics. I still have access to PupMed via my old friends.