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ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

At this point the hostages are Hamas’ only bargaining chip left. At the same time, Israel has very publicly stated that their primary war goal is not the release of the hostages but the total extermination of Hamas. So even if Hamas released the hostages, by Israel’s own admission, the war would not end (it may even intensify as there’d be no hostages to avoid bad PR for).

Also, nobody thinks Hamas are saints. But the people of Gaza should not have to face extermination by explosions, gunshots or starvation because of their crimes.

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SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Bargaining chip for what? What is the goal of Hamas at this point, other than to continue the conflict indefinitely?

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- WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Uhh…not being killed and/or tortured and killed?
  
  Since they are religious nutjobs, revenge too probably.
  
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  - SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    So you’re good with Palestinians suffering so these nutjobs can have a “bargaining chip”? You’re good with Palestinians suffering so some nutjobs can have revenge?
    
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    WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Pfft be real. Terrorists are already psychopaths that only see lives as serving their abominable “God”. Sometimes this thing called “empathy” is useful for seeing why someone won’t give up their only means of survival, to avoid being killed, possibly tortured and raped.
    
    Expecting people to just fuck themselves over and die is actually insane. It’s our job to kill terrorists if necessary, they are going to do whatever it takes to survive.
    
    So sometimes you have to give them a way out, to preserve your own life and the lives of civilians. Not understanding such a basic thing is how you get fucking killed.
    
    Does it make sense now?
    
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- head_socj@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Bargaining for the release of Palestinian political prisoners and the right to sovereignty over the land they live on. I’m surprised you don’t know this, considering you appear to be capable of reading and using a search engine
  
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  - SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Yes Hamas wants their imprisoned members released to replenish the ranks.
    
    You do know that Yahya Sinwar was released in a previous exchange of prisoners for hostages, right? Some people claim that Israel propped up Hamas with these kinds of negotiations.
    
    There have been a few times in this war there has been ceasefires with hostages exchanged for prisoners. Hamas eventually stops releasing hostages and the conflict resumes. The IDF ends up just fighting the Hamas fighters released causing more death and destruction.
    
    Also Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza about two decades ago. But then Hamas got into power with a plurality of the vote and have been constantly attacking Israel ever since. It doesn’t seem like Hamas wants sovereignty, they could have had that if they wanted it. Hamas wants violence because that’s how they maintain power. Violence against Israel and violence against their own people.
    
    You also have access to a search engine, you could use to find out what Hamas really is. They aren’t freedom fighters, they’re an oppressive regime that uses violence to maintain power that’s propped up by Iran.
    
    Nothing Hamas is negotiating for is for the benefit of the Palestinian people. They’re only negotiating for their own interests while Palestinians suffer.
    
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    ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    
    But then Hamas got into power with a plurality of the vote and have been constantly attacking Israel ever since.
    
    Hamas has always been extreme in rhetoric, but the violence afaik began when Israel, the US and the PA attempted to coup them out of power.
    
    There have been a few times in this war there has been ceasefires with hostages exchanged for prisoners. Hamas eventually stops releasing hostages and the conflict resumes.
    
    So far every ceasefire was broken by Israel, because they were unwilling to enter the next phase of negotiations which was a precondition to the release of more hostages.
    
    It doesn’t seem like Hamas wants sovereignty, they could have had that if they wanted it.
    
    Like how Israel respects the sovereignty of the PA in the West Bank? Yeah right.
    
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    head_socj@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Okay. Let’s assume everything you are saying is true: how does shooting children and women at aid distribution sights help further Israel’s purported goals? How does the forced displacement of 2 million people help destroy Hamas? Why isn’t Israel committing itself to the release of hostages? Why is the ICC asking for Netanyahu’s arrest for war crimes? How do you excuse Israel’s plan to build a 'humanitarian city" and force the civilian population to be deported to foreign countries? How do you rationalize this? What is Israel’s goals and intentions? How many Palestinians do you think should die before things are right again?
    
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