Comment on Is anyone else not feeling that patriotic for July 4?

• Allero@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  We should band together based on mutual respect and common responsibility, and not based on someone telling us who to band with and who not to.

  The concept of nation-state doesn’t allow us to band with whoever we like, and calls to unite with people born in place X (and commonly against people born in place Y). The concept of state in general oversees and dictates our relationships more broadly.

  Multitude of states all fostering loyalty to their rulers doesn’t allow many people to look at those of other nations as equals and fellows with shared global goals. Sure, messages of international peace are commonplace, but hey, we should definitely exclude those pesky Chinese/Russians/Americans/Ukrainians/Israelis/Palestinians/whatever!

  When we categorize people by nations through the lens of state, we put easy labels that are far from true. If someone’s a Russian, he sure supports war in Ukraine. If someone’s American, he sure is personally responsible for all the immigrant scare. If someone’s born in Israel or China, clearly he’s all on board with genocide!

  At the same time, state-level patriotism fosters coming to terms with terrible people within the nation. Sure, our billionaires might be at fault in some ways, but it’s better than other country’s evil and corrupt billionaires! Our rulers are wise leaders, their rulers are cruel autocrats! My neighbor is a terrible person, but at least he’s not one of those <input the nation with bad stereotypes>!

  It forces us to make preference to people who may not deserve our support, who might be actively undermining our causes, it leads us to close our eyes on the sufferings of others outside our arbitrary group that doesn’t even share our views and goals.

  Now, I know it doesn’t have to be that extreme, but patriotism is always showing preference to someone or something based on a very arbitrary characteristic, instead of honest and fair consideration. It’s an intentionally cultivated fallacy.

  On a personal note, I’d rather avoid ad hominem attacks if you’d like to keep a good faith discussion running. And, FYI, I never take any drugs, not even alcohol.

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  • tane@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Utopian nonsense

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    • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨4⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      We can always do our best to make it closer.

      Most people claim this to be Utopian, and then just try to tone it down in others, so their own compliance is not seen to themselves as weakness but rather “wisdom”. No - it is a surrender, an act of learned helplessness.

      Sure, it’s hard to force politicians to abandon the concept of nations, and it’s hard to bring a revolt to a population so compliant.

      But everyone can make personal steps. First, admit that patriotism is bullshit. Second, watch your own preferences in people and what you factor in your decision. Third, if you have the opportunity, form an international collective, reach out to specialists within other nations, or if you can’t, see if you can build a collective or even just a friend group with the immigrants around you. Fourth - advocate for people in other countries, learn what they face, what they get to endure. For example - do you know that the deadliest of recent wars was not in Ukraine or Palestine, but in Ethopia? Or the current situation in Myanmar? Did you consider supporting women rights’ causes in the Middle East?

      Personal action and involvement will not allow you to fall for the traps the state tries to implant in your mind, and you’ll be personally responsible for a small, but proud piece of international cooperation - one that should become commonplace to the point when it wouldn’t make sense for anyone to draw divisions.

      Human life is human life. Human suffering is human suffering - here or on the other side of the globe. The concepts of unity, hope, and cooperation are all universally recognized wherever you are. Why not step in?

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  • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    You’re from the US? It smells like you see the whole world through that lens.

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    • Allero@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Nope, I’m from Russia.

      But then again, where does that not have its place? Are people in Europe, say, universally welcoming to immigrants? Or maybe Asia is not full of xenophobia? Africa, at least?..

      There are much better factors of unity than being on a certain plot of land.

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      • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

        Europe is quite accepting to immigration, but if you look for a country where no one dislikes foreigners, good luck!

        What I wanted to say in the beginning is, you band together to form a government, for the people, by the people! The US one is kind of crap, the russian one is an authoritarian hell hole, likewise in china.

        Here in Europe we complain all the time about “the government” but that is to make politicians change their policies, because we’ll vote them in if we like them (the policies) or vote them out if we dislike them. Works half-reasonable well (when the Kremlin doesn’t spew too much disinformation), better than any other system IMO.

        You can’t do that in Russia, so I understand your frustration about “the government”.

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