Comment on Is anyone else not feeling that patriotic for July 4?
Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 3 weeks agoproud of your home and the accomplishments of the country
Don’t really understand that either. I could understand celebrating the date at which you got an united democracy, that’s certainly an accomplishment. Even that happend a quarter millennium ago, you (not even your grandmother) didn’t take part in it and nowadays there’s no British monarchy you can annoy by being a democracy, but celebrating democracy as a concept always is great. But you don’t do that. All what I see from the Atlantic Ocean’s other side is some people celebrating something which is written under “Nationality” in their passports. I personally can’t celebrate something as complex/indefinite as a country. I don’t think complex really is the best word for it, but what I mean is that countries never are only good and also “country” itself is a term so obscure and indefinite. The country existed for nearly 250 years, billions of people lived in it and some terrible stuff happend in and because of it. Wars and crimes and war crimes of leading personell, etc. Surely also some good stuff, but how to seperate that? You simply can’t. Is Ronald Reagan part of what you’re celebrating, is Donald Trump part of it? Is democracy part of it? Is some random 1800s-farmer part of it? Are people even part of it and if no why? Are the country’s borders part of it? Is the tree standing in your backyard part of it? You can’t ignore the killing of civilians in Vietnam war while including democracy or can you? What’s home? Is it your family? Your house? Both?
One thing is for sure: You aren’t the country, you just live at some place on the world which happens to be territory of something named “USA”. Same for me, I have been born at some place which happens to be territory of something called “Germany”. Why should I be proud about the place where I were born? That’s no achievement, I didn’t even contribute to it. I’m proud that I managed to contribute to democracy by protesting and voting. I also felt proud about the A I got in some elementary school test. I’m really proud about switching from Windows to Arch Linux in less than 2 hours. I may some day feel proud for my children while watching them doing something great. I contributed to all of this more or less directly and I can feel proud about it for that reason. But why should I feel proud about a country? Germany is nothing I’m responsible for, the (current path of the) USA is nothing you are responsible for. If you were responsible for it, why shouldn’t I be too?
We can’t feel proud about it, we can’t feel ashamed for it, because it isn’t our fault. However we can change the current situation. Changing the world, having the courage to try it, is something we can feel proud about.
yarr@feddit.nl 3 weeks ago
This is just such an odd post for me. I know people that have Nordic or Germanic ancestors and love to celebrate and love that part of their heritage with yearly parties or festivals. Isn’t it a normal human reaction to feel proud of your “tribe”?
I’m not claiming to have invented the USA, and sure, I was just born here. I didn’t land on the moon myself, but I feel proud of the USA when I think about Neil Armstrong doing it.
The USA isn’t all bad, and my life would have had a different track if I was born somewhere else. I think you might be reading too much into it? July 4 isn’t some kind of cult meeting over here where we all chant over the flag and run around in robes. For most people, there’s maybe a parade, a cookout or two, and a day off.
Of all the problems in the USA, people celebrating July 4 or feeling some national pride is way down on my list, and I’d say somewhat typical of people to feel proud about their home.
Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
To be honest: Sounds like some nazi stuff, at least that would be my first impression if someone did it here.
Sarcasm joins the room May be, but killing each other was a normal human reaction for millenia. Sadly still is today sometimes.
NASA is great and I really like it, I feel good for humanity because it is able to do different thing than killing. I wouldn’t call that proud, because I didn’t contribute to it. Even space travelling is to complex to like all of it, moon landing was part of some foolish trial of strength on earth- No, I won’t overanalyse it.
I know your July 4th isn’t a cult meeting, but patriotism seems like something invented for people who have nothing they can feel proud about, because they haven’t archived something to be proud about. (Don’t take that personal.) At the same time patriotism tends to sperate different groups of people which shouln’t be seperated since they all are part of humanity and could archive great stuff together. It’s the one thing evil persons can rely on if they want to create a scapegoat to make people fight this scapegoat instead of seeing that they –the people– all are just part of humanity and should revolt against their evil leaders.
yarr@feddit.nl 3 weeks ago
WTF?? I went to one of these parties with my neighbor and he shared his favorite bratwurst recipe and prepared delicious cabbage dishes for us. How does that relate to Nazis?!? You do realize not every German is a Nazi, right?
Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Just to remember: I’m German myself. I didn’t say they are nazis, I said “Sounds like some nazi stuff, at least that would be my first impression if someone did it here”. I don’t want to implement Godwin’s Law in this constructive discussion. In my opinion it sounds like nazi stuff, because a lot of German nazis I know love to fantasize about their “Germanic roots”. That’s my first impression while I don’t have much detail what you are referring to, since I never experienced such a celebration myself.
Could you understand my position better by what I wrote aside from that stuff about Garmanic celebrations? Because I would like to better understand the US-American view on patriotism while explaining my own.