Comment on Can you read and understand this passage?

• khannie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  That last bullet point is shocking to me. To be an English undergraduate I would have expected them to enter with very strong vocabulary and an innate desire to read / love of the language.

  I had no trouble understanding it and thought it painted a really clear picture.

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• isyasad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  This is interesting but with n=85 and Bleak House being the ONLY sample text they use, I wouldn’t really put much trust in the results.

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  • andros_rex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    N of 85 is entirely reasonable for that kind of study. You could safely generalize that to the population of Kansas English undergrads - run that through G Power and tell me otherwise.

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    • isyasad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You say in another comment that this is indicative of a failed American education experiment, and that there’s a generation of illiteracy. I’m not saying that’s wrong, but it’s a much bigger generalization than “Kansas English undergrads” (which is such a specific category, why should I care about data that relates specifically to Kansas English undergrads?).

      But my main gripe is the use of just one text. “People cannot understand this one book (therefore literacy is deficient)” is a much less convincing argument than “people cannot understand these 6 popular books from this time period” or “these 30 randomly selected fiction works” etc.
      Is it well-established that Bleak House is representative of all the works we think about when we consider “literacy” and “illiteracy” as people’s ability to understand texts?

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      • starlinguk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        I’m sorry, but there isn’t a single word in that text that an English undergrad should have to look up (although I did look up the dinosaur purely to see what it looked like).

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      • andros_rex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        You say in another comment that this is indicative of a failed American education experiment, and that there’s a generation of illiteracy.

        Yes, I’m alluding to a larger context outside of that study. In addition to the obvious harms of COVID/virtual school, many US schools switched to a model of teaching reading that omitted phonics entirely. This simply does not work for the vast majority of students, and this had already been demonstrated in the 1970’s.

        The authors refer to that larger context here -

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        My remarks on generalizing the study to Kansas undergrads was to point out that is an entirely acceptable sample size. In statistics, when you think about sample size, you have to think about the population you are studying. This study was specifically studying the literacy of Kansas English undergrads, which I imagine is a small enough population that you can generalize that study to. This would indicate that many future English teachers in Kansas are struggling readers.

        We can put that as a data point next to several other studies about the US’s current literacy crisis.

        As far as why they chose Bleak House:

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• jeffw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Do you have a link to the study?

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  • andros_rex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Yeah - it’s what’s linked at the end of the OP

    It is fascinating and scary. The “whole literacy” experiment the US did - where we ignored decades of research on how to teach children to read while filling the pockets of educational consultants - seems to have created a generation of near illiterate adults.

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    • jbrains@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      I would want to repeat that study with novels written in the past 25 years before concluding too much. Yes, the participants had access to a dictionary, but I imagine that needing to decipher certain parts, such as foreign cultural references and familiar words with unexpected meanings, interferes with the brain’s usual functions for turning words into images in the mind’s eye. And this even ignores the folks wtih aphantasia like me.

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      • andros_rex@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

        There’s a discussion of the history context too:

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        These were college students who were seeking English majors. People who are going to go on to teach Dickens - and hopefully have read Great Expectations or Tale of Two Cities at some point in high school.

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