Comment on welp, Patreon just destroyed my stable income after a decade on the platform - what now
qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 days agoI’m going to try my best to answer your concerns, point by point. This has been a really good exchange.
The threat model for a local sports club putting a bank account on their window is completely different than a popular content creator posting it on the internet. I can’t speak definitively about your country, but it’s probably safe to assume they have business accounts, which are different than personal accounts, incur fees for having them open, fees for deposits, fees for transfers etc - negating the monetary benefit you see from “cutting out the middle man”.
Yes, there are business accounts and personal accounts.
What distinguishes most business accounts from personal ones are connected automated paying terminals and facilitated overdraft, cash advance or factoring solutions.
I risk around 90% of all banks in my country charge for monthly account maintenance fees, transfer orders and other services. Most will try to offset that expense the customer has by offering a number of “free” services, like a number of free instant transfers or a couple of free or heavily reduced price for market orders.
Receiving money in an account is not something it has to be paid for.
Banks typically don’t like you running businesses on personal accounts and they will notice. The scenario this particular creator describes will result in lots of small irregular payments and few withdrawals from the account - that’s pretty much a textbook example of usage that will trigger a KYC red flag at a bank. Now your account is being investigated and has a chance of being closed/frozen.
I am fiscally declared as an independent professional, as is my partner. I receive small transfers in my account for payment of invoices I issue and my partner receives even more, as she has a used book store.
Both of us use our personal accounts to run our businesses. I have considered opening a second account, just to keep VAT and other values I receive from customers partitioned, and have called my bank questioning if there would be any issues in doing so and they did not care.
Even if my account was flagged for suspitious activities, it would be a matter for police and fiscal services to investigate, not the bank.
We’ve not even gotten into international transfers, malicious “fans” trying to reverse payments/reporting you for fraud etc which could end up with your account frozen, […]
All transfers are final, here. You can file a complaint but you have to go to the police first, then present that complaint to the bank and wait for legal procedures to take place. Have your evidences ready, too.
[…] the fact you now have to build and maintain your own infrastructure for web hosting, video sharing, customer service - which will eat time, money or both (and unless you’re particularly technical you’re likely to need several middlemen). You’ll likely also need to deal with a drop in users/income because you’ve now made paying you significantly more difficult for many users.
You’re describing a multinational. And I’m concerned with getting paid, alone. A creator should employ whatever services they see fit to forward their business, be it video editors, IT services, etc. Services from which they should be capable of detaching in favor of another, better, offer.
For some reason, Youtube came to mind as read that snippet of your text. That company should be starved tomorrow. There are several hosting services you can hire to upload and share your video - or any other, by extent - content and withold your work as yours. How many creators have had their work demonitized, for them, because what they do does not align with the platform morality yet the platform still loads adds on those videos for the people watching it?
Frankly, because you think there’s an easy alternative doesn’t mean there is one. There’s a reason these middlemen exist - because everything I’ve described up there is difficult, time consuming and not what these creators want to be doing. Like them or not, many creators wouldn’t be creators without them
Just because one solution exists, does not mean it has to be the one and only, and right now, the platforms that offer these services do not serve their customers better interests.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 5 days ago
The post above is about patreon and how their changes are impacting a comic artist in the UK. Your banking experience where you live is largely irrelevant. Your bank can and will close an account if you don’t match their risk profile - no investigation by police or financial services required.
No, I’m describing a small content creator. You’re adding middlemen that can interrupt service here, not removing them.
I didn’t say it was the one and only. I said they exist for a reason, because doing this stuff on your own through disparate services can be difficult, time consuming and not what the creator wants to do with their time. If the services offered align with the users needs then it absolutely makes sense to use these middle men. You’re the one suggesting abandoning middlemen and using direct bank transfers as a primary means of doing business.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 days ago
Where do you even live? Do you own your money? Does not seem like it.
A bank can not close an account here, unless the costumer actively requires it. There are banks that will close an empty account, with no movements to it for a determined time, but even then the institution is obligated to warn the client in advance. There is even a special, minimal bank services account, established by force of law, where it is established that no bank, acting in the country, can deny access to bank services and charge more than a established amount for it, per year.
Risk assement is done in a case by case system; there is no such thing as a credit score. The only thing it exists is a data base, at the central bank, for credit responsabilities, and if you default you are banned from accessing credit, not bank services. A client can have zero credit near a bank, use their services, and maintain their account as long as they live.
What you do with your account is your business. I should know: I worked for a company that owed money to state, suppliers and the bank itself and it only their account frozen after a judicial order was issued.
And yes, I am claiming to cut the middleman and have more money delivered to the creators. And I stand by those words.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 5 days ago
What makes it seem like I don’t own my money?
You seem fixated on where you live and your own experience - which doesn’t appear to be at all relevant to the situation we’re talking about.
Who’s talking about credit scores? This is AML/KYC regulation lol. If you’re in the EU I’m fairly sure AML regs require monitoring of customer accounts/transactions for suspicious activity.
Banks can and do absolutely close bank accounts in the UK for falling outside the risk profile of the bank. It’s happened to everyone from MPs down. Basic banking services are available to everyone where legal to do so, but these accounts don’t have features of current accounts and transfers etc can be limited - not ideal for running a business.
At every step of the way what you’ve described has included more complexity and expense to the creator.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 days ago
It seems we are forced to agree on disagreement.