Comment on welp, Patreon just destroyed my stable income after a decade on the platform - what now
qyron@sopuli.xyz 6 days agoGood morning! I apologize for leaving this hanging yesterday.
I am aware that making account numbers is highly unadvised by banks but I do know as well special accounts exist for public facing entities and professionals where withdrawing from it requires a very long and tedious process, with several security steps and verifications.
There is a local foundation that almost plasters their windows with poster with their IBAN. Local sports clubs do the same. The opportunities for malicious actors are plentiful, yet these entities do it, safely.
I don’t doubt you can point me to some security flaw or loop hole but, getting back to the where this conversation started, cutting the middle man out should be a priority.
Those same payment processors can unilaterally change their terms of service and deny creators of their income. Paypal has done it. I wonder who else.
In my country I already have a transfer subsystem where I can give you my phone number and you can use it to transfer money directly to me. All national banks are part of and own that system.
Fintechs are shady or have too many strings attached.
Nice to meet you.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 6 days ago
The threat model for a local sports club putting a bank account on their window is completely different than a popular content creator posting it on the internet. I can’t speak definitively about your country, but it’s probably safe to assume they have business accounts, which are different than personal accounts, incur fees for having them open, fees for deposits, fees for transfers etc - negating the monetary benefit you see from “cutting out the middle man”.
Banks typically don’t like you running businesses on personal accounts and they will notice. The scenario this particular creator describes will result in lots of small irregular payments and few withdrawals from the account - that’s pretty much a textbook example of usage that will trigger a KYC red flag at a bank. Now your account is being investigated and has a chance of being closed/frozen.
We’ve not even gotten into international transfers, malicious “fans” trying to reverse payments/reporting you for fraud etc which could end up with your account frozen, the fact you now have to build and maintain your own infrastructure for web hosting, video sharing, customer service - which will eat time, money or both (and unless you’re particularly technical you’re likely to need several middlemen). You’ll likely also need to deal with a drop in users/income because you’ve now made paying you significantly more difficult for many users.
Frankly, because you think there’s an easy alternative doesn’t mean there is one. There’s a reason these middlemen exist - because everything I’ve described up there is difficult, time consuming and not what these creators want to be doing. Like them or not, many creators wouldn’t be creators without them.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 days ago
I’m going to try my best to answer your concerns, point by point. This has been a really good exchange.
Yes, there are business accounts and personal accounts.
What distinguishes most business accounts from personal ones are connected automated paying terminals and facilitated overdraft, cash advance or factoring solutions.
I risk around 90% of all banks in my country charge for monthly account maintenance fees, transfer orders and other services. Most will try to offset that expense the customer has by offering a number of “free” services, like a number of free instant transfers or a couple of free or heavily reduced price for market orders.
Receiving money in an account is not something it has to be paid for.
I am fiscally declared as an independent professional, as is my partner. I receive small transfers in my account for payment of invoices I issue and my partner receives even more, as she has a used book store.
Both of us use our personal accounts to run our businesses. I have considered opening a second account, just to keep VAT and other values I receive from customers partitioned, and have called my bank questioning if there would be any issues in doing so and they did not care.
Even if my account was flagged for suspitious activities, it would be a matter for police and fiscal services to investigate, not the bank.
All transfers are final, here. You can file a complaint but you have to go to the police first, then present that complaint to the bank and wait for legal procedures to take place. Have your evidences ready, too.
You’re describing a multinational. And I’m concerned with getting paid, alone. A creator should employ whatever services they see fit to forward their business, be it video editors, IT services, etc. Services from which they should be capable of detaching in favor of another, better, offer.
For some reason, Youtube came to mind as read that snippet of your text. That company should be starved tomorrow. There are several hosting services you can hire to upload and share your video - or any other, by extent - content and withold your work as yours. How many creators have had their work demonitized, for them, because what they do does not align with the platform morality yet the platform still loads adds on those videos for the people watching it?
Just because one solution exists, does not mean it has to be the one and only, and right now, the platforms that offer these services do not serve their customers better interests.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 5 days ago
The post above is about patreon and how their changes are impacting a comic artist in the UK. Your banking experience where you live is largely irrelevant. Your bank can and will close an account if you don’t match their risk profile - no investigation by police or financial services required.
No, I’m describing a small content creator. You’re adding middlemen that can interrupt service here, not removing them.
I didn’t say it was the one and only. I said they exist for a reason, because doing this stuff on your own through disparate services can be difficult, time consuming and not what the creator wants to do with their time. If the services offered align with the users needs then it absolutely makes sense to use these middle men. You’re the one suggesting abandoning middlemen and using direct bank transfers as a primary means of doing business.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 5 days ago
Where do you even live? Do you own your money? Does not seem like it.
A bank can not close an account here, unless the costumer actively requires it. There are banks that will close an empty account, with no movements to it for a determined time, but even then the institution is obligated to warn the client in advance. There is even a special, minimal bank services account, established by force of law, where it is established that no bank, acting in the country, can deny access to bank services and charge more than a established amount for it, per year.
Risk assement is done in a case by case system; there is no such thing as a credit score. The only thing it exists is a data base, at the central bank, for credit responsabilities, and if you default you are banned from accessing credit, not bank services. A client can have zero credit near a bank, use their services, and maintain their account as long as they live.
What you do with your account is your business. I should know: I worked for a company that owed money to state, suppliers and the bank itself and it only their account frozen after a judicial order was issued.
And yes, I am claiming to cut the middleman and have more money delivered to the creators. And I stand by those words.