i never thought of it as a homophobic insult because plenty of straight bi etc also suck cocks, if ive ever heard cocksucker in a homophobic context ive always heard a certain slur right after it
to me, cocksucker reminds me of a prison dynamic, where its more about the power of making someone suck your cock vs them being just gay for sucking cock
but at the end of the day it dont matter we’re all just arguing about an insult homophobic or not i dont think its a good use of our time to continue to argue about its semantics
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 days ago
or maybe i’m just gay and i think cocksucker is a funny insult, but no i must be homophobic, clearly that’s the only option.
This shits just not that complicated bro, it’s language, doesn’t matter where an insult came from if it’s use is broadly different in modern lexicon. Some fascinating psychoanalysis of random people on the internet.
MTK@lemmy.world 4 days ago
If you are white, go call a black person a removed in a friendly way (like black people do to eachother sometimes) and see how well that goes. History matters, the origin of a word matters. Sure, maybe in a 100 years the meaning will change, but currently it is still widely recognized as a homophobic slur.
And even if you were gay, that does not make you immune to internelized homophobia. Just like there are plenty of black people who disagree with the usage of the word removed even if spoken by a black person, because it is still rooted in racism.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
Yeah but the proportion of intensity also matters. The n word literally dates back to slavery. It makes sense that it would be a pretty offensive racial line to cross. Although i don’t think it’s fully strict, i think it’s just mostly strict, you can find examples outside of it.
There’s also the question of a slur being situationally relevant. For example, you could write out the n word in long form, specifically for the act of describing it, in a dictionary for instance. You would struggle to argue that it’s a necessarily “racist” usage of the word.
For the same reason i would argue that “cocksucker” isn’t necessarily a slur against gay people, for example, if you don’t use it for the purposes of specifically slurring a gay person. Which also brings into question whether or not it is even a slur in the first place.
Of course there are also words like faggot for example, which are more directly linked to gay people, and being a slur specifically in that regard, it doesn’t have much use outside of that. But even then people do still use it, primarily gay people. Some of us just think it’s a funny word. (you can call me a faggot all you want i don’t care, i just think you look silly lmao) though i would still explicitly denote the slurred usage of faggot.
and this would be pretty fundamentally “schizo” like we’re talking freudian psychology levels of psycho analysis and diagnosing here. There are certainly select cases where that could theoretically be possible, but i don’t see that being worth more than interesting psychological banter. I mean realistically, it’s meaningless in 99% of cases. There’s going to be another more aggressive tell.
and you can be against the usage of it, for sure, but i think you’ll have a hard time finding black people who police what other black people say. Just as you will in this case.
MTK@lemmy.world 3 days ago
I think we need to agree to disagree because I feel like we both said what we had to say. I still think you are missing the point and you still think I’m over analyzing.