Did you read the book? I haven’t seen the movie or read the book, but I just read mcarthys the road and it was excellent, no country is next on my list. Hopefully the book can redeem it for you, but if it’s all a sour taste just read the road. It made me realize the point wasn’t an explanation about what did happen or what would happen, he was exploring the relationship of father and son through what was happening.
Comment on What’s a movie nobody can convince you is good?
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
No Country For Old Men.
I was actually really enjoying the whole cat and mouse thing until the main fucking character died off-screen.
How does nobody ever talk about how shitty that “plot twist” is? It’s not clever. It’s not entertaining. It’s just bad storytelling. They don’t even show you a good shot of him to convey what actually happened. My girlfriend and I had to rewind it twice because it was so fucking stupid and made so little sense.
That’s actually how I feel about most of the Coen Brothers’ movies. The classical narrative structure exists for a reason. It’s a good framework for telling a story that makes sense.
Sometimes there’s a good artistic reason for diverting from that and telling the story in an unconventional way. Other times it’s just pretentious auteur garbage.
ReiRose@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s probably a good point, but yeah, I don’t need to read a book to try to salvage a movie I didn’t like. There’s just no time for that.
Thcdenton@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
TheDorkfromYork@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
This might come off as pretensions, but you should trust the writers more. The movie, and book, are very well written, and if something doesn’t make sense, you should consider that you missed something.
I’ll say this, Llewelyn Moss is not the main character. The movie doesn’t start or end on him. He doesn’t change or evolve as a character. How he died isn’t the point.
It helps to focus on what Anton Chigurh said about rules, and what the Sheriff says about what he is willing to die for.
If you want me to just spell out the theme, I can do that to, but I think you would enjoy it more if you trust the movie.
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, I’ve heard that before, about how Llewelyn isn’t the main character. Not trying to be rude to you, but that sounds like bullshit. He’s the character I’m rooting for. If the main character isn’t the character I’m rooting for, then that doesn’t sound like an enjoyable movie.
If you’re saying Chigurh is the main character: he doesn’t grow either.
If you’re saying Tommy Lee Jones is the main character (which I’ve heard before), then I’m going to strain my eyes from rolling them so hard. He doesn’t at any point interact with the plot. That’s not good writing.
I get the Coens are doing it differently. They’re not following the rules for how stories should be told. But different isn’t the same as good, and the way they told the story was needlessly confusing and pretentious.
I always find it useful to use food as a metaphor to describe how I feel about movies. If No Country For Old Men were a meal, it would be expertly seasoned and cooked, with one extra ingredient that doesn’t belong there and detracts from the whole thing, like if you made a perfect steak and drenched it in liquorice sauce.
And it would be served on a scrap of driftwood, or in a fishbowl, or in literally anything other than a plate. Everyone around me would be raving about the side dishes while I’m wondering why my meat tastes like shit.
You can include themes in a movie and still tell a coherent story. Try this: remove the theme. Is the movie any good? Is the plot entertaining, and does it make sense? No, it’d be really awful, and the inclusion of a theme doesn’t excuse that.
DrSteveBrule@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Do you not like any movies or shows where the main character is the bad guy? The Sopranos is my all time favorite show but I’ve never rooted for Tony. Breaking bad is great too but I still never rooted for Walter White.
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You really never rooted for Walt? You didn’t hope that he’d make the right decision? You didn’t find a little guilty pleasure in the satisfaction of a bad deed done well?
If not, then why did you even watch the show?
I’m fine with rooting for a bad guy. But no, I don’t enjoy stories that only have irredeemable characters that I can’t root for.
Besides, Javier Bardem won the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor, which doesn’t usually go to main characters.
But ok, even if Llewelyn wasn’t the main character, he’s the central character of the plot. His death resolves the main storyline in the movie, and it happens off screen. That’s not good storytelling.
TheDorkfromYork@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
It is obvious that the themes of the movie were lost on you, and that is ok. It takes time to understand a movie, then you might not get it completely. I had to watch the film 3 times before I got it. You are far to confident in your judgement. If you did understand the film, you wouldn’t be say the Sheriff was disconnected from the plot. Everything in the movie was done with intent, and you didn’t pick up on that, which, again is ok. Just please DO NOT say that it wasn’t without purpose. You just failed to get it, and that happens all the time, especially to me. I hate to think about all the times I complain about a book or movie only for friends and colleagues to point out the obvious details I missed.
In film, you can tell who the driving character is by seeing which character believes a lie and how they are forced change because of it. The Sheriff is the only character with an arc.
I believe that this movie’s theme attacks you personally, and is having the intended effect. Once he dies, that should tip you off to the movie was about something else, and give you more context to the events of the film.
The Sheriff is the only character who changes.
They DO follow the standard story structure.
It was confusing, because they challenge your assumptions and established predictable cliche. They do follow a normal story structure, just not normal cliche.
I don’t know what you’re trying to say here, but theme is the most important element.
In short, you should be more open minded. You didn’t get the movie, that’s ok. I don’t think most video essays on youtube or reviewers get it either. But frankly, it’s extremely well written, and it would be a measure of bad judgement if you dismissed it as senseless. I’ll be clear, you didn’t get it. The movie is amazing, and it will take thought to understand it, and not everyone is in a position in their life to get it. But some day, I hope you will, and the first step is to believe it is possible that you didn’t get it, and to have trust in other people.
So often I hate mainstream movies, but this isn’t it. This movie doesn’t waste a single shot.
moakley@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If it follows a standard story structure, then what was the climax?
I think I’m very open-minded about movies. For example in the mid-aughts I dragged my girlfriend to like five different Coen Brothers movies before I decided that I really just don’t like them. For another example, I even like mainstream movies.
Isn’t it possible I do understand it, and I just don’t like it? I’ve put enough thought into it. I see the themes. I don’t think those things outweigh the poor plot structure.
You can say No Country has a coherent plot, but it doesn’t in the sense I’m talking about.
void_turtle@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Main character as the bad guy is very common and many great stories are told this way. If you can’t find a way to enjoy any of them then idk what to tell you, watch fewer marvel movies I guess
generichate1546@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
The Dude isn’t the main character in the Big Lebowski either