Comment on Germany right now
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 4 days ago
There are more fucking neo-Nazis in the USA than in Germany. The shit AfD voters come from the Oklahoma and Mississippi of Germany, Thuringia and Saxony.
The shit AfD voters come from the Oklahoma and Mississippi of Germany, Thuringia and Saxony.
That’s only kinda true. The east has way more Nazis, but just because the AfD is stronger there with 32% of the votes, doesn’t change the fact that 18% of West German voters voted for them too.
Yeah, sorry, but that is like looking at the map in 1930 from these ones and saying “the NSDAP voters come from East Prussia only, don’t complain about the Nazis in Germany!”
Your map is correct, but modern Germany does not have the Versailles Treaty, out-of-control inflation, an economy that was on it’s knees and the Prussian military influence that was hell bent on revenge for WWI.
Both countries are full of neo nazi.
Is that per capita?
tomi000@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Definitely not true. It sounds like you are German and if so it is pretty sad how little you keep up with your own election even though it happened just a few days ago. There are more AfD voters in eastern Germany but most Bundesländer have >18% AfD votes.
People tend to forget that Hitlers NSDAP only needed 18% in 1930 and a rigged election in 1933 to completely take over the country.
Coping doesnt get us anywhere. Its not always “the others” that vote far-right. Its the whole country, the educated just as well as the uneducated, the poor and the rich. Almost everyone has family members or friends that vote far-right and we need to talk to them, try to understand their motives and make them understand that AfD wants to make everything they fear 10 times worse.
ieatmeat@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Yes however today there aren’t tools available anymore that hitler had to make this happen. Our constitution is now far better protected and isn’t as easily dismantled as the Weimar republic’s constitution. Still sucks that so many people voted for afd though
Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml 3 days ago
I heard that argument often, and it’s true that the same way and same “we essentially keep the old constitution alive completely and change laws in ways that were technically legal” as back then won’t work.
However, fascism - also in the 1930s already - also has strategies like: “Just doing illegal things and overstepping what your posts are allowed to do, knowing you can only be stopped by force, even if judges and your superiors disagree.” That one was a massive part of how Hitler quickly outmanoeuvred von Papen, even though Papen was chancellor and Hitler “just” vice chancellor. The NSDAP-adjacent ministers, police chiefs, judges, etc. simply did not report to Papen, no matter what the law and constitution said.
What I am getting at: One should never think the laws on paper are some kind of shield and holy fact, only the laws as the executive (cops and courts, essentially) protects and enacts are what really matters, and those are corruptible, no matter how good the constitution is. (Another often quoted example: The constitution of North Korea also guarantees a lot of freedoms and rights, but no one would say, that protects the people there.)
tomi000@lemmy.world 3 days ago
Its better than back then, yes. But you cant know what kind of tricks they would use nowadays before it happens. Look at the US, Trump is doing whatever he wants no matter if its illegal. As long as hes not stopped by force, he will continue doing so.
in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 days ago
I try. My family calls themselves left of center and liberal, yet no books on Marx but certainly have books on Hitler. My brother who works in finance lauds great mathematicians in history, but he won’t read about Einstein’s politics because I smoke weed therefore my recommendation is “hard to take seriously.” They think the rise of fascism is just media sensationalism, and things are better than ever because “the markets say so / GDP is higher than ever.” I try to explain, through the words of economists, that GDP and markets aren’t a good measure of wealth disparity, and they accuse me of being envious that I don’t have as much money as them. I try to explain that money isn’t everything, they roll their eyes like i’m on some hippy-revolutionary kool aid and no different from MAGA. They say I should stop worrying about “the news” and “focus on yourself,” meanwhile i’m disabled from hyperthyroidism and they roll their eyes at my pain and immobility like i’m being lazy. Fuck “enlightened centrists” they walk and talk just like fascists do.