Nah… fuck all that.
Comment on Common Ground
Cethin@lemmy.zip 6 days agoI don’t disagree, but just like the prison system, revenge doesn’t solve any problems. It only makes them worse. The goal should be rehabilitation to improve society, not revenge seeking to make it worse just to make us temporarily feel superior.
TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Lightor@lemmy.world 5 days ago
At what point do you stop letting the person cause damage in this quest for rehabilitation? If someone knowingly hurts groups of people and is proud of it what is your path there? To rehabilitate someone like that they need empathy, the one thing Republicans lack en mass. That’s the only reason they are upset now, because it finally impacts them. If a person is proud of hurting people and lacks any empathy I don’t see a path to rehabilitation for them. And trying to do so just gives them more slack to cause more harm. We’ve tried talking and reasoning for years, look where we are.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
Stop letting them cause damage? We’re “letting” them do that? Sorry, we don’t have any control of them causing damage. Making sure they double down instead of seeing an opportunity to change only makes sure they cause more damage. Insulting them doesn’t make them want to stop.
Ironically, this is a response with a total lack of empathy. No, they largely do have empathy. They’re just told that they path that does the most good is the wrong one. They want to protect women, and they’re told that trans women are a threat to them. Sure, it’s lies, but they’re that abuses empathy. If they lacked empathy then the messaging wouldn’t target empathy.
No, we haven’t. Our political class has specifically sought to divide. Sure, they try to get republican support when they need to, though they don’t do it through going left. They do it through maintaining the status quo.
Regardless, it doesn’t matter what “we’ve tried” before. Its about practicality. What does telling them they are bad and can’t move past that do? It only ensures they’ll never be useful. That’s not the way forward. We need to push leftist policy, which they largely do agree with (but only if it’s not called leftist) and invite them to join us. If we don’t then we are stuck where we are, which personally I don’t really care for.
Lightor@lemmy.world 5 days ago
You seemed to miss the last part of that sentence, which is a very important part of it, the “in this quest for rehabilitation”. Let me give you an example and maybe that will be easier to understand. If you let a person stay at your house because they have no where to live and then steal stuff, that’s not ok. Now you bring them to therapy and explain why it was wrong and they promise to stop. Then you let them stay at your house and they still again. So you talk to them again and tell them they need to stop. They continue to steal. Now, at some point, you trying to reform this person is just an invitation to having your stuff stolen because it’s not getting through. You’re not “letting” them steal, but you are enabling them to do it when you know they most likely will. This is my stance on these people. MAGA supporters have “stolen” from us too many times for me to open my door and let them back in my house.
How am I not showing empathy? But moving past that, they don’t largely have empathy… Or do you think deporting people, banning books, telling people they aren’t the gender they claim to be, limiting health care, passing voter suppression, taxing the lower and middle class to fund tax breaks for the rich, you think all that shows empathy? People either know what they’re voting for and have no empathy or they are idiots who enabled horrible things. Either way they are not great people.
I’m getting to the point where this has to be a troll. One side was literally making up insulting nick names for people, banning the press from even covering them, people running as dems them voting republican. Hell there are sitting members of or govt who think Jewish Space Lasers are real and that federal workers don’t deserve a paycheck or a job, they said that out right. The left isn’t doing all that. The left tried to use laws and order to bring Trump in order. Look at what he is doing right now, firing people en mass, putting media people in charge of the FBI and FDA. They aren’t talking to anyone about anything, they are forcing what they want, even if it breaks the law. Trying to act like one side is pure lawless while the other side is trying to use the law is silly.
Dude, wake up. People are losing their jobs because of Trump and they still think it’s for the good of America. These are cult members. They are not interested in compromise or discussion, literally look what is going on in the govt right now and people still support it. Trying to appeal to them is like trying to appeal to Hitler in WW2, it doesn’t work. You’re the group in WW2 that thought Hitler could be reasoned with and kept trying to appease him. It doesn’t always work, this is one of those times.
Out of touch doesn’t even begin to come close to addressing this… Holy crap man. Do you follow politics at all?
Ahh yes, invite them to sabotage any plans we have. Great idea. Super naive, but great idea.
No, we need to let them know that what they want and are pushing isn’t acceptable. This idea of you have of “just push leftist policies” ignores the how. There’s a reason why people call themselves “Forever Trumpers”, they will follow him to the end. This is not a group of people that can be reasoned with. Look at some of the street interviews of these people, they don’t care about policy, they care about their side winning, fully stop. That and marginalizing people. Those are the only policies the right has advertised and pushed, and the voters love them for it. That’s not a group looking to change their mind, that’s a group that needs to be cast out and shamed.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
This is not analogous to this situation at all. They will keep doing what they’re doing. They aren’t invited to do it by us. The only way to make them stop is to get them to join us. You can’t just kick them out like you could someone staying at your house.
The equivalent situation would be something like being locked in a house with someone. Your best bet is to convince them to be better. It isn’t to turn them into an enemy because you’re stuck with them.
Because you aren’t trying to understand how they can come to their position empethetically. They have empathy. It’s just being abused. You’re trying to turn them into some monstrous “other” that you don’t have to consider where they came from.
These are actions, not reasons. Murder is generally bad, right? However, if I murder someone to save hundreds of other people, maybe not anymore, right? They’re told, for example, that immigrants are killing, raping, or doing whatever to Americans. They’re told this is a rampant massive issue. They want to protect the innocent who are being harmed. They come to a bad action through an empathetic thought process. You not seeing how that can be done is you not having empathy for them.
I’m not discussing republican elected officials. They’re the ones misleading republican voters to do evil. They are almost universally bad. The average republican is not. They’re mostly misguided.
Again, I’m not talking about the leaders. I’m the person who would fight against Hitler, but wouldn’t turn down the help of someone else who wanted to fight against him but voted for him in the past.
Most people want what’s best for them and their family. They’re told socialism or whatever is evil, and they believe it. When the policies are polled without telling them what it is, people agree with them. Most Republicans want to legalize Marijuana, for example. The elected officials don’t. Don’t think what republican officials say or do represents their voters, because it often doesn’t when polled. They support workers. They generally support people being allowed to do what they want freely. However, they’re told there’s a great evil they need to defend against, and that they’re doing the right thing by fighting against the left.
These are not most republican voters.
Again, these aren’t most republican voters. Most republican voters are sitting at home and trying to survive, like everyone else.
They’re told they’re fighting the good fight. They’re told there’s evil that’s trying to harm innocent people. All of this is done so the elites can keep fucking them and us. Telling them they have to continue to be our enemy because they once we’re is stupid. It’s a waste of everyone’s time.
Making enemies has never helped anyone. If you don’t want to ask them to join, fine. Just don’t say anything. No one needs you to pop in and tell them their pieces of shit when they’re thinking about voting against Republicans.