Submitted 3 months ago by Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone to gaming@beehaw.org
https://youtu.be/MbPiP_eR3gQ?si=8Z0aTcGp8Y2Zd88W
Frost goes into detail about what happened between him and Nick resulting in Frost leaving Second Wind
Aw come on! I loved Cold Take and hoped Second Wind was going somewhere. But yeah, in hindsight it was kinda sus how much formats they were pushing out.
This hits especially hard as I’m low on good YT creators to watch.
Huffs huge amount of copium
Maybe the Super Best Friends will get back together.
I already had a fairly extensive take on this last night, but the team have put together a response to the video that I feel is worth sharing, and not just because it supports my prior post.
Meh. There’s a fair amount here where it’s people admitting they don’t have the receipts and he still ran with it. It’s all fine and well to say that you’ve got receipts that you can’t share because they’d screw people, but you only get away with that if those withheld details are backing credible allegations where the quantities and people involved are known and there wasn’t a lot (if any) of that here that hasn’t already been acknowledged and remediated or resolved from the point of view of the people sticking with Second Wind if their statements on their Discord are to be believed. You don’t get to claim you have receipts that prove a terrible situation is happening while everyone involved with the situation is standing there wishing you well and saying that it’s not terrible.
At best you could charitably make a narrative out of Frost’s “proof” that supports his claim that Nick is all of Second Wind’s problems, but then you have to ask why nobody else is leaving like he has, or trying to force Nick out as he did. Frost claims that Nick is keeping everyone in the dark, but the Second Wind team have been pretty transparent on their Discord about acknowledging Nick’s issues and have claimed that they’re both aware of them and working on improving the situation, so I can’t see where Frost’s argument still has any gas after that? Hell, the Second Wind team saw Nick’s social media presence as an issue and arranged a performance improvement plan around that for him which it seems he is adhering to, so clearly they have the ability to reign him in if they wish and have done so. Where again is the issue?
Nick does seem like an ass, I feel confident saying that because I too am an ass, but this video did nothing to make me think that Second Wind is suffering because of Nick. Meanwhile Frost claims that he only has beef with Nick and doesn’t want to harm the remainder of the Second Wind crew, but that whole video is going to cause the whole Second Wind team a huge amount of damage over issues that they’ve already acknowledged and moved on from, so who is the larger ass here? These guys are both younger than I am by a fair amount and they’ve both seemingly made mistakes that I feel are on par with mistakes I have personally made in my life. I like to go with the Ted Lasso philosophy, www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udZZQB5OFU Clearly the Second Wind crew are taking a shot on giving Nick another chance, Frost should just accept that he wasn’t a good fit there, move on, be successful, and hope and pray that the people he supposedly bears no ill will over at Second Wind experience a Nick who has learned from his mistakes and manages to provide the support and success they deserve.
Frost left while nobody else did, that was what was right for him. He’s still trying to grind an axe while they’re wishing him well and allowing him to make his case on a forum they control. He’s made it clear on the Second Wind discord his leaving was because there was a disagreement about content (he thought that only larger shows should survive because it’s algorithmically better) and monetization (I somewhat agree on his point here that they should do something about the Patreon credit rolls at the end, but mostly because I don’t feel those are content, not because of what the advertisers want) and from everything he’s said there I have to say that I find Nick’s argument more compelling even if it does mean the eventual death of the endeavor as Frost seems to think it will.
I say this because the alternative is becoming the same thing that every “media company” these days ends up becoming. As a Patron of Second Wind I’d rather ride this current (maybe naive) attempt at being something not beholden to algorithms and content farming, and see it fail if it is indeed misguided, than have them become another something that can succeed by selling out like all the others have. Frost might not be wrong that they can’t monetize like they’re doing and survive, and he was definitely right to leave for his principles on that, but if the Second Wind team are happy while they’re trying (and all indications outside of Frost’s singular claims are that they’re doing less than perfect but still alright) then we should enjoy the time afforded to them in the attempt. I only ever watched Yahtzee on The Escapist (as I had been watching him before ZP was a part of The Escapist) but I watch more than half of the Second Wind content now and and enjoy it all thoroughly. I watch every Bytesized Review (and have bought or have gotten my wife to buy a handful of the games they’ve covered), every Cold Take (while that was a SW thing), every Design Delve, every Backdrop, every Unpacked, and of course every Yahtzee Tries (the videos not the livestreams) and Fully/Semi Ramblomatic…
If what Second Wind is doing right now is wrong, I don’t ever want them to be right. If Frost is right about Nick and for some reason nobody else is getting out despite that, I hope that they are at least finding joy and fulfillment in what they’re doing and I hope that Nick gets fucked for as long as he chooses not to grow from any of this. That said, unless there are other people coming forward too or leaving, it really doesn’t seem like Frost’s take is the eloquent and passionate truth he usually brings to the table, it seems like his take isn’t meshing at all with everyone else who is still a member of that going concern, and that’s fine, it happens all the time that different people read the same reality differently, but this video ain’t it if he actually cares about the Second Wind crew like he claims. That singular discordant note is enough to trash the whole of his credibility for now on this issue, because he is saying one thing and expecting me to look the other way as he’s doing exactly the opposite in the same YouTube video. It seems like a Hot Take from the guy who I came to appreciate for the other sort. I’ll probably give him another shot if he wants to keep making content, but I wish he was willing to extend the same courtesy to those he has perceived as wronging him instead of attempting to sharpen his axe on someone for their worst moments. 🤷♂️
You bring up some great points, I feel bad for not giving you a solid reply but I’ve had my second bottle of wine with my wife and am drunk.
I didn’t bring the video here to champion frost, just to let everyone see because I have seen several posts about it prior to frosts video.
I’m sure all up everyone is to blame, almost always is the case but the world will decide who is more at fault.
Either way though, Nick doesn’t make contentI’m interested in. I would rather see everyone be entirely independent and succeed or fail on their own merits
(Disclaimer: I’m a Phoenix supporter of SWG)
I’ve followed this drama pretty closely in the last few days, and it’s really not all so damning as others here have found it. I could write up something longer, but I don’t want to get too far into the weeds, so I’ll leave it at a few paragraphs.
The long and short of it is that the way this video was made and posted, in combination with the general atmosphere of the internet trending towards Huge Drama^tm, makes this look like more than it actually is. From everything I’ve seen and heard, I’d characterize Nick’s actions as “flawed human making mistakes” — which is to say, perfectly forgivable. He’s since owned up to the more egregious things, such as his comments in the Gameumentary call, and the folks at SWG have reined in his influence recently due to things like his social media troubles. I personally feel like this was a very good call, and will likely be enough to cover the complaints raised.
It is also worth noting, though, that not all of the accusations are worth much. I really don’t know how $10 in alleged Twitter bucks is even worth mentioning, especially considering the claim later looks to have turned out to be a misunderstanding entirely.
All in all, while I believe it’s very fair to want to address these things, and it’s also fair to want to do so in a way that Patreon supporters both existing and potential can use said info to make better assessments with regard to their money, the reality is that the method and platform upon which these grievances were aired lead to a far more bitter and unproductive outcome than was necessary. I still respect Frost, and I don’t think he meant for this at all, but it still happened. Such is the nature of the web, sadly.
MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 3 months ago
My only beef with this video was needing to pause it dozens of times to read the tons of text that flew by too fast. Otherwise, it’s what you expect from Frost: meticulously researched, eloquent, and passionate.
I knew nothing about Nick until the Escapist exodus. I just went with the narrative that it was a solidarity move, and I was thrilled to see SW take off. Frost leaving abruptly (to the public) confused the hell out of me. But that was point 1 addressed in the video. And then the deluge of receipts started.
Holy hell.
I hope the rest of the SW team kicks this turd to the curb. He’s been riding Yahtzee’s coattails long enough.
Aussiemandeus@aussie.zone 3 months ago
Yeah I was annoyed by the stopping starting too, but I appreciate him laying it all out.
If the video was long enough to have everything readable it would go for an hour haha.
I hope Frost keeps producing actual content I really love his videos.