Comment on Wednesday SOTD Thread - November 13th, 2024 (#521)
djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 5 days ago
Black Watch is an all time favourite of mine. I like to combine it with Cerberus, Braeburn or other warm fruity fragrances, but this is trickhole week for me, so I’m trickholing it. It never disappoints.
The stainless R41 Gs is a heavy beast and my favourite version of the R41 family. It has that heft that inspires a (sometimes misguided) sense of quality like a good tool. It’s one of my favourite DE razors on par with my Wolfies. This and the Rocca are underrated products IMO and it might have to do with Mühle’s awkward positioning in the shave market. The bulk of their offering is this annoying combination of a cheap product with a luxury packaging. For example, if you go on their website, the majority of their razors are cheap zamac heads with expensive (pretty) handles. This brush is the same, pretty handle and lacklustre knot. My travel synth is similar with a nice folding handle and an unpleasant knot. I don’t get it. Mühle is a small family-run business, they could easily run in the “German Quality” direction, this razor and the Rocca are proof they can make quality products at good prices. Instead they compete with cheap mass produced products by attaching pretty handles to their cheap mass produced product. I think they may be stuck and unable to advertise their good razors (stainless steel and titanium) as quality worth a few extra Euros while still praising their “high quality” zamac razors which cost the almost the same despite a fancy porcelain handle. How do you tell your customers to choose between quality and luxury when many would expect the two to go hand in hand?
In their words, stainless steel vs zamac (which they refuse to name, so they call it chrome instead. This is close to dishonest IMO since chrome is only the plating on the zamac):
Edelstahl steht wie kaum ein anderes Material für kühle Eleganz und Robustheit. Es ist besonders beständig und bringt eine zeitlose Schönheit, die bleibt. (Stainless steel represents cool elegance and robustness like almost no other material. It is extra durable and brings a timeless beauty that persists.)
Ohne Chrom würde die Welt viel von ihrem Glanz einbüßen. In der Verarbeitung für unsere Nassrasur-Accessoires beweist er seine besten Eigenschaften: Die Oberfläche ist korrosionsbeständig, besonders langlebig und hat einen kostbaren, verführerischen Glanz. Im Kontrast dazu kommen Farben und Formen anderer hochwertiger Werkstoffe besonders gut zur Geltung. (Without chrome, the world would look a lot of its lustre. It shows its best properties in its use for wetshaving-accessories: The surface is corrosion resistant, extra durable and has a precious, seductive shine. The colours and shaves of other quality material come into play particularly well in contrast to it.)
From this marketing speak, how would someone who doesn’t know that chrome is just a plating and that the underlying zamac breaks when you drop the razor or corrodes away when wear (micro)cracks the plating on the threads understand that the stainless steel razor head is worth a few extra Euros if you care about durability? Both are “extra durable”, and the chrome one is described as prettier, and also of superlative quality if you believe this text.
Well, somebody had their espresso this morning! :)
I agree about your assessment on this type of marketing. Compared to razors offered in plastic with many tiny blades of the cheapest possible stainless, chrome-covered zamac is still a large improvement in quality. :)
It never disappoints. 🍻
Compared to razors offered in plastic with many tiny blades of the cheapest possible stainless, chrome-covered zamac is still a large improvement in quality. :)
I agree! I still recommend the Merkur 34C for beginners for instance. It’s just praising it as peak durability that irks me and it leaves no room for making the case for steel.
It’s just praising it as peak durability that irks me
Yes, this sort of thing irks me too. It’s misleading, and doesn’t need to be.
I don’t have much experience with stainless steel or brass razors, but I find that chrome-plated razors slide better on the skin.
But then, you can chrome-plate stainless steel or brass just as well as zamac 🙄
I never noticed a difference. Now I have a homework for my SLS 🙂
Wow. Great take and I honestly agree 100%!
However, I think there’s a socialization component to it too - men, especially in (East) Germany, are rather reluctant to spend too much money on grooming tools and something for their self care. They can justify buying expensive tools and cars or motorcycles, but when it comes to their grooming the bare minimum has to suffice. “I can’t justify spending so much money on a safety razor!” is a common sentiment. I know since that was how I used to think before finally having an epiphany after shaving with your Rocca that you lent me. Mühle as well as Merkur could totally focus on high quality materials, especially the former: have an inexpensive line of Zamac razors under your nom brand, everything Mühle will be at least aluminium heads on fancy material handles. That makes wetshaving accessible for students and folks with a low income while keeping your brand identity as a luxury item. Because if we’re being honest, a well made safety razor (or straight razor, or shaving brush) is a luxury item. I also don’t see the point of putting Zamac heads on porcelain or ebonite handles that look really awesome. Worst case scenario, someone has a broken and unusable razor at home that has cost them 200+€.
Good point about quality and luxury often not going hand in hand despite the public expectation that it does. I personally think we might need to push companies in the right direction by voting with our wallets: if we only buy products from materials that will stand the test of time, maybe then companies produce more of those and less Zamac crap. Shame to hear about the brush though. It looks so great, but a lackluster knot in an awesome handle is still a below average brush. I can relate with the Cooldog brushes I used to own: very cheap synthetic knots set at a very low loft, making it look almost like a make-up brush and coins that were only glued in with a cheap adhesive sticker so they fell out. In fact, I enjoyed my cheap RazoRock brushes way more than these (supposedly) premium products! So I just put them away.
Because if we’re being honest, a well made safety razor (or straight razor, or shaving brush) is a luxury item.
I both agree and don’t. Yes, in the sense that nobody needs a stainless steel safety razor for over €100 if a brass Tech will cost a fraction. On the other hand, nobody would call it luxury if you shave with Mach3 cartridges, but those are more expensive than the “luxury” stainless steel razor in just a few years. So it’s all kind of messed up in my opinion.
Worst case scenario, someone has a broken and unusable razor at home that has cost them 200+€.
Yeah, this one gets to me. The meissner series they sell is a porcelain handle zamac razor that might just break after a some years of use because the threads wear through the plating for €655, and a brush that has the same lame knot as my brush and costs €675. I don’t understand.
I see where you’re coming from and I think we’re generally on the same page. There are also expensive cartridge razors with fancy handles or vibration or heated blades, but no one from our hobby would call a cartridge razor luxurious. The cartridge prices are ridiculous and I think that’s what pushed a lot of us into traditional wetshaving: the promise of saving money while finally enjoying to scrape those unwanted hairs off. Of course that was long before we fell down this rabbit hole and are now firmly into the sunk cost fallacy…
Yep, we wouldn’t necessarily need a 100+€/£/$ stainless steel razor due to all the vintage brass razors still around in great condition for a quarter of that price. Yet if we actually save that amount and make such a purchase, we expect rock solid quality that should outlast us in the way that vintage razors outlasted their previous owners. Sadly this often isn’t the case. Anecdotal evidence, but my Stando Perun really pisses me off in that regard. A 100+€ stainless steel razor simply shouldn’t catch rust, period. 😞
Oh yes, the Mühle series in cooperation with Meissener Porzellan is mind-blowing in a negative sense. These are probably more or less collectors items, but I still believe that the fun thing about wetshaving is that you have this collector’s obsession aspect of the hobby while actually being able to use your precious items for the intended purpose! However, as you said - that shouldn’t be done with this precious porcelain handle razor, since it has just a Zamac head. What an absolute (cruel) joke! Meissen really creates porcelain art and then it’s honoured with one of the cheapest materials possible for razor construction (the others being plastic and bakelite, who at least don’t corrode easily).
A good contrary example to this might be PantaRei brushes from Italy. Some of their brushes are custom order, made from expensive woods and/or ceramics and most even hand painted… yet you also get a quality horse/boar/badger or synthetic knot in 28 to 30 mm! And Mühles supposed “gold standard” synthetic fibre only goes up to 25 mm as their XL option. Weird. I think they could do lots of things right, e.g. the R41 design was quickly gaining notoriety as a very aggressive shaver, but it’s also a very unique design. It’s cool that they even came out with the GS model after the success of the Rocca.
I apologize for rambling way too much, but you brought up so many valid points and instigated such a meaningful discussion that I wanted to share my two cents, but instead dropped my whole bank account on you. Sorry 😅
Yes, we are on the same page, I think.
my Stando Perun really pisses me off in that regard. A 100+€ stainless steel razor simply shouldn’t catch rust, period. 😞
Yeah, this one is infuriating. I’m sorry this happened to you.
Both PantaRei and Zenith could be good examples for Mühle IMO. Luxury quality, or good value.
It’s cool that they even came out with the GS model after the success of the Rocca.
Yeah, it really is. The GS is really well made too, tight fits, good surface quality. For a European made razor, even the price seems reasonable.
I apologize for rambling way too much, but you brought up so many valid points and instigated such a meaningful discussion that I wanted to share my two cents, but instead dropped my whole bank account on you. Sorry 😅
Oh please, this is exactly what we have this instance for 😊
HomeAwayFromHone@sub.wetshaving.social 4 days ago
Oh neat, didn’t know they did a titanium one. Was it just that special edition or did it become a regular product at some point?
Unfortunately I think the best we can do with the situation is appreciate that they ever bothered to make the machined ones and that they are almost certainly subsidised by the zamac. Which is also why the price isn’t that far apart: few would buy the machined one if they sold it at the same margins as the zinc alloy.
It really is exhausting though. Every time I make a purchase decision I have to be skeptical because I might be getting the zamac-with-fancy-handle version of whatever product or service I’m trying to buy. Avoiding that takes time which is how they sell all this junk at a high margin. Especially with how we’ve integrated almost every facet of life into the economy. Contributes a bit to a sense of despair. So I try to appreciate the people that do sincere work and, instead of being frustrated by it, try to consider the time it takes to winnow the quality offerings from the grift as doing my part to signal a better direction for society.
djundjila@sub.wetshaving.social 4 days ago
Yes, they made just two editions, the London and the Berlin edition with I think a couple hundred razors.
That sounds right, unfortunately.
I like this perspective a lot.