Comment on lemm.ee plans for mitigating image upload abuse
eee@lemm.ee 3 years ago
Please please do not implement an invite system.
If I may, lemm.ee is now the second biggest instance. Redirecting people to register on local instances (feddit.country) or generalist ones (reddthat.com, Lemmy.today, discuss.online etc.) couldebe reasonable to make those ones grow as well.
I agree that there should be a clear lists of instances open for registrations, but that probably needs to wait for the dust to settle a bit beforehand
I posted a long reply above (direct link lemm.ee/comment/2929349).
While I understand your concerns, this instance has gotten a fair bit larger and will start to suffer the same issues that lemmy.world does if registrations aren’t curbed. It can’t grow infinitely. That just isn’t feasible for one server. Having closed registrations on lemm.ee doesn’t stop anyone from signing up on different instances. A solution might be to temporarily limit registration here in some way, and for the devs and instance admins to find a better way of helping new users choose an instance. The initial sign up process was confusing, and could be streamlined to make it easier for people to choose an instance. In the long term, enhancing the way federation works so users who do sign up on smaller/newer instances don’t need to be lemmy savvy to find content would also help alleviate that type of issue.
I posted a long reply above (direct link lemm.ee/comment/2929349).
i’m on the side of “no, rampant froth without proper tools and whatnot is a recipe for something we don’t want to eat.
i get your point but some folks aren’t that put off by it, assuming they can ask for an invite and it does t take ten years. i had to work at it a bit over on reddit but i took my time and just wrote about the difficulties and in a couple weeks hey, i got an invite. i’d prefer a nicer community once i’m in to a quick and easy entry but it sucks thereafter (or is just chaotic and unhappy periodically). it’s like your house. do you just let everyone in from fear of being lonely? probably not. probably, if you’re not a outlier, you’ve taken steps to make it a bit hard for anyone not invited to enter. and it makes your home a better place to be.
sunaurus@lemm.ee 3 years ago
I agree that users should be able to join Lemmy freely, but I think it makes a lot of sense to try and spread users out more between instances - this spreads out the responsibilities between more admins, spreads out the load between more servers and also reduces the chance of a single point of failure for the whole system.
It’s clear that there are seriously vile people out there who want to cause huge amounts of damage to Lemmy, and if we have unlimited growth in a few selected instances, then these people only have to target those specific instances for maximum damage.
In a perfect world, none of this would be necessary, but then again, in a perfect world, we wouldn’t need a decentralized platform in the first place.
eee@lemm.ee 3 years ago
Thanks for responding!
I agree that it’s best for the lemmyverse.net if there are many big instances too.
Unfortunately, the concept of the fediverse isn’t as easy to understand. The average newcomer (who mostly just wants to consume content and occasionally participate) starts off by interacting within their instance, and it takes some time to figure out cross-instance communication (there are still posts about this on the nostupidquestions-type communities). For such users, landing on a small instance means they’ll poke around, think that “this forum is dead”, and never return.
Like reddit, having a large userbase on lemmyverse is important to keep the conversation interesting (see i.imgur.com/4tXHAO0.png). Reddit has provided lemmy with a huge shot at success by injecting a large number of users. But if I’m being honest, the conversation on the lemmyverse isn’t as diverse and engaging as it is on reddit yet. This isn’t self-sustaining yet. I can point to 2 pieces of evidence to support this:
Using Voat as a (imperfect) proxy - I don’t know if there are official stats of Voat, but the best dataset I’ve seen for Voat (ojs.aaai.org/index.php/ICWSM/article/…/23395) has 16.2M comments in 2.3M submissions from 113k users. Voat was shut down for lack of funding, but even in its heyday it wasn’t exactly thriving - many people on Voat were united in their toxicity and it never really got going. Compare these numbers to the lemmyverse which has about 100k active users over the last 6 months. If the fediverse is to grow beyond “that niche forum for nerds”, this userbase isn’t enough.
It’s already clear that the number of active users is decreasing - since mid-July, the number of monthly active users has dropped from 70k to 50k. This is expected (bunch of redditors who joined in June, poked around and said hi and left), but it means if the lemmyverse wants to have any chance of succeeding long term, you can’t alienate new users now.
The approach I’ve been advocating since the beginning of lemmy is:
The way federation works now, it’s still disadvantageous to be on a smaller instance (discoverability of new communities is harder, syncing posts/comments isn’t always fast, it’s hard to know which community is more active. Many of these can be fixed with changes to activitypub and lemmy protocol, but in the meantime, sending casual users to small instances means they’ll likely never return.
So to sum up, I think there should be an avenue for casual users to join the biggest instances, even as we encourage people to move to smaller ones (either targeting those who are more tech savvy, or those who have already been on Lemmy long enough to know how it works - I myself was on Lemmy.world and switched to this “smaller” instance).
Anyway, you’re the admins here and I have no say over what you eventually do. I’m just hoping you’ll consider the practical realities of user behavior - everyone wants what’s best for the fediverse in the long term.
Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 3 years ago
github.com/Fmstrat/lcs
My experience is the opposite, but that may be instance dependant
Active users stats are the same on every instance for communities