Comment on Is it me or is everyone in hexbear insane?
m_f@midwest.social 3 months agoThe majority of responses are of this ilk:
WHAT ABOUT ISM MUCH!!!111?!?1;1!?;1!1?1!1!11?1?1?!1!1?1?1?1!1!!1!1!1?1?1??1!1!1!11!?1?1!1?1?1
<custom ukraine flag emoji> had no business being nazi fucks murdering their own people and working for <custom us flag emoji> to provoke Russia
Obomba had no business overthrowing the democratically elected Viktor Yakunovich
They’re not detailed, sourced, or coherent, they’re just bandwagoning. They’re pigs wallowing in the mud, enjoying getting others muddy.
One response has images like this and links to news articles:
It is sourced, I’ll give you that. It doesn’t try to actually make any argument though, it’s just hoping you’ll see the headlines that think “ukraine == nazis”, without stating that outright. It’s oddly similar to Young Earth Creationists.
Here’s another response that’s the sort of thing you write when you first learn “omg capitalism is bad you guys!” and view all of the world’s ills through that lens. much dialect wow:
Anyone who had a look at Lenin’s “Imperialism: highest stage of capitalism” and took it seriously, knew that there would be war in Europe as soon as they realized that the means of production of the former USSR were auctioned in a corrupt fashion, and their structure of ownership went not to western hands, but to national interests that collide with those of the US. Since that moment, it was just a matter of time that there would be conflict.
Poor oppressed Putin!
Putin tried really had to be taken into the fold imperialism. He assisted the west in its looting of Russia. He tried to join NATO but the crypto fascists who run NATO will never forgive the Slavic peoples for destroying the third reich
I’ve waded through the responses now to make sure I’m not missing something worthwhile, and it was a waste of my time. The one thing of value any of these responses has is hopefully one day making the posters feel self cringe when they’ve matured.
My point was that there was much more good faith discussion from hexbear than from OP, I think the posts you copied here illustrate that nicely.
Also
Poor oppressed Putin!
shows how little you understand these arguments, the argument you post after that is meant to illustrate how Putin is an oppressor, not a oppressed or a speaker of the oppressed.
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Right so some sarcastic little jokes. The kind of thing all over Lemmy.
The obvious meaning of that picture is to criticize the about-face of Western media when it comes to Ukrainian far-right movements. The narrative changed immediately. You’re meant to ask why.
It does not mean “Ukraine == Nazis”. This is your invention.
The term is “dialectic”. Are you sure you are familiar with the topic you are being condescending about?
A sentiment found nowhere in the statement you quoted. In fact, it is exactly the opposite of focusing on the political leader of the country and instead focuses on the material conditions of the former USSR (which is more than the aRussian Federation).
Of course you are free to decide what is worth your time, but your criticisms here have been specious.
m_f@midwest.social 3 months ago
This is a great example of the hyperfocus on irrelevant details that plagues these comments. It was intentional, but even if it wasn’t, so what? “Your argument has a typo, therefore you’re dunked!”?
The issue is that the comment is pablum. It doesn’t actual say anything, it’s not informative. It’s hoping you’ll infer something yourself and then waste time assuming what they meant. As mentioned in a previous comment, I realize that one of the things it’s trying to get you to infer is that decadent western media is bad or whatever, but it’s not limited to that. Arguing that there’s only one thing it’s trying to communicate is a great example of the black and white thinking that plagues tankies.
“You’re meant to ask why” is so embarrassingly vapid that I’m surprised you’re defending it. Of course people will focus on big issues like “let’s try to make sure this country continues to exist” over “let’s try to help this country improve itself”. There will hopefully be time for more of that later after Putin’s invasion fails. I mean come on, this is pretty basic stuff. Do you think I’d be arguing in good faith if I said “Yeah, what’s happening in Palestine is bad, but have you seen their LGBTQ record”? It’s also again, not saying something, it’s just JAQing off.
I was told there’d be informative comments with sources. There were not. The vast majority of the comments didn’t even try to be substantive, just pigs wallowing in mud.
I elided some of the comment that makes it more clear:
This is imperialist sympathizing, and the OP should feel ashamed. “Putin just had to invade Ukraine because of those other meanie imperialists that didn’t want him in their club!”
Also “crypto fascists who run NATO will never forgive the Slavic peoples for destroying the third reich” is just straight facepalm material.
TheOubliette@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
How was saying “dialect” a doge reference? What?
Anyways I told you exactly why it was relevant in the second sentence you quoted. Do you not see the contradiction between being condescending about a topic without being able to refer to its concepts by name? It isn’t even a spelling error, it is a different word entirely.
I would say its meaning is obvious and you’re being obtuse.
Yes, I am aware of and criticized this misapprehension.
It’s a meme with one point and you are repeatedly announcing that you don’t get that one lightting would prefer to substitute in the things you want to think about instead.
How is it vapid? It feels like you just have a grab-bag of negative words that you’re applying willy-nilly rather than addressing what I said. You have skipped over the vast majority of what I said, by the way.
You are being so vague that I have to guess you are still trying to discuss the meme and that you are contrasting Ukrainians fighting Russia with Ukraine having a Nazi problem. Let me know how accurate this guess is and I will be able to respond.
The people that try to pinkwash Israel’s genocide do so in order to justify genocide. They want to create deserving victims so that you do not materially oppose their genocide and instead support it by trying to get people to vote for genocide supporters and villify the people taking action in solidarity.
Ukraine having a Nazi problem is not used by people at Hexbear to say that Ukrainians deserve to die. But it is directly relevant to the civil war since Euromsidan, as Nazis have been the dedicated military cadres terrorizing the people of Donbas and they have absurdly high profiles, likely being behind several decisions including the ethnic cleansing campaigns, the celebration if Bandera, increased anti-labor and antisemitic attacks. It is not, “Ukrainians are bad and deserving because some are Nazis”. It is, “the Nazis sure do call a lot of shots and do Nazi things in Ukraine and you shouldn’t justify the Azov Brigade”.
This is simply false. The post with the image you reposted cites 9 mainstream sources alone.
Can we agree to a baseline of, “not saying false things in purpose”? I always assume this to be the default, but unfortunately you are behaving poorly towards me and others.
I see what happened. Your “poor Putin” comment refers to the quote that followed it rather than the previous, as implied.
If there is something for OP to feel bad about there, it is being too cavalier using Great Man Theory logic despite knowing better. But their comment is overall accurate if you understand it as the Russian capitalist ruling class (of which Putin is a member). They did attempt to become part of the global imperialist order alongside Europe, the US, et al and were instead excluded and pushed towards third world status.
If you think communists are sympathetic to capitalists trying to get a bigger piece of the pie, you are very confused. Understanding how capitalists fight each other and put us all through the meat grinder in the process is an important part of being communist, however.
NATO was literally originally staffed by Nazis and used them to continue a maximum pressure anticommunist campaign immediately after the Nazis had attempted with varying degrees of success to depopulate the countries to its east of Jewish people, slavs, gay people, Roma, and communists. That legacy has survived, with NATO serving primarily as an offensive weapon against designated enemies of the imperialist bloc. For example, turning Libya from the highest HDI country in Africa into a country controlled by warlords with open air slave markets. The Western opposition to Nazis was, historically, that they turned West and invaded through France and bombed England rather than staying focused on the shared enemy to the east. They were happy to capitulate and support Nazus right up until the push West.
So as a shorthand quip I would say it is pretty accurate.