Comment on Why I Haven't Seen Any Trump Supporters In Fediverse (Lemmy and Mastodon)?
absentbird@lemm.ee 1 month agoThose dang anti-theists, with all their crusades, and inquisitions, and molestation scandals. At least when theists isolate you from your friends and family for being gay, or leaving an abusive relationship, it’s done in the name of God. What’s the anti-theists excuse?
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 month ago
This is actually laughable, but I’ll point out your own hypocrisy.
Anti theism is desiring the eradication of all belief in God and mandatory atheism. By default and nature, it is bigoted and worse than everything you listed. But sure, let’s entertain this anyway.
The aim of the Crusades were about taking back the Holy Lands from the occupying Muslim forces. Sure, religion was involved, but the same stuff happens with National ideology. Like Russia “taking back” Crimea in 2014. So getting rid of religion won’t stop things like this happening. Throughout modern history, most major wars were based on a secular political ideology, notably the First World, Second World, Cold, Korean and Vietnam wars.
Second - Molestation scandals. These happen in any organisation, and like wars, aren’t inherently religious. Of course, large churches were a good target for child molestors, but the same thing happens with schools, generic celebrity stuff and broadcasting corporations. Sometimes on a bigger scale than the scandals in the Roman Catholic Church. Anything that gives anyone positions of power.
Third - Let’s list some prominent anti-theist regimes.
USSR - 1.2 Million killed in the purge.
People’s Republic of China - “Fatality estimates vary across different sources, ranging from hundreds of thousands to millions, or even tens of millions.” (Of deaths in the cultural revolution). Christianity is still persecuted to this day, and the state can be described as anti-theistic.
Nazi Germany - 6 million Jews killed in the holocaust. Very arguably anti theist as Hitler tried to eradicate Jews and suppressed Christianity that wasn’t theologically liberal in his favour.
Obviously not everyone was killed in the precise name of anti-theism, but it still shows that the problem isn’t religion, which anti theism makes it out to be.
Lastly, in the People’s Republic of China, people are often shunned for divorce and homosexuality, and it’s still a very atheistic country.
For myself, I have never shunned anyone based on sexual orientation, gender identity or relationship status. I have never called for any of these people to be killed by the state for these either. I do not believe the state should be enforcing Christianity when someone’s immorality isn’t hindering anybody else (Such as Homosexuality or Polygamy) Yet if the anti theists had their way, they’d have me persecuted and likely killed because I am a Christian.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Ok, honestly, celibacy might’ve been facilitative for it. You know, accessible targets because instincts are instincts, even if it’s boys.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 month ago
And priests being celibate in the Roman Church is some mad doctrine which came about after the Reformation and contradicts 1 Timothy 3:2&13
absentbird@lemm.ee 1 month ago
That was the aim of some crusades, there were also the northern crusades which had the goal of slaying pagans and forcibly converting people to Christianity. Obviously not all war comes from religion, but Christianity does seem to have a penchant for interfaith violence.
Not only have there been an out sized number of sex abuse scandals involving christian churches (most prominently the Catholic church) there’s been a clear pattern of retaliation, cover-ups, and defense of abusers. When there’s a scandal in a public school, the offender is fired and indicted. The church has routinely shielded offending priests, shuffling them around to avoid accountability.
Nazi Germany was theistic, 98.5% of Nazis were Christians. Their belt buckles had “God is with us” inscribed on them. There has been more violence waged against theists by other theists than by anti-theists. Interfaith wars, sectarian violence, pogroms, inquisitions, forced conversions, over a thousand years of history shows clear patterns of religious violence. The USSR was anti-theistic (at least originally), and their persecution of religious people was wrong, but pretending that every anti-theist supports violent purges of the faithful is absurd. I am not an anti-theist, but I have friends who are, and they just want to be left alone.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 1 month ago
1: Again, my point was that not all wars are religion based. Islam also have a penchant for it. The Bible doesn’t advocate war either (in fact, Jesus seems to imply the opposite) 2: The issue is an organisation of the Roman Catholic Church, not the religion itself. Large organisations like that are houses of cards. 3: Sure, the nazis may have been theistic but fundamentalist/orthodox (small o) Christians were still persecuted for rightfully calling out the evils of the Nazi regime.
So you’ll think that you’ll manage to get me to renounce my faith and stop believing using laws without having to kill me? 🤣 Anti theism is the advocation of removing and persecuting religion. “Wanting to be left alone” is more akin to secularism, where the government doesn’t have a support or bias for any religion.
absentbird@lemm.ee 1 month ago
Yes, Islam and Christianity both have a penchant for holy wars.
There are many large organizations that don’t put so much effort into shielding abusers.
Anyone who called out the evils of the Nazi regime was persecuted, including atheists who were often labeled ‘Russian supporters’ due to their lack of faith. ‘Godless’ communists were the first targets of Nazism.
I think most modern anti-theists aren’t interested in forcibly converting anyone, they see the rise of atheism as inevitable. They want to remove religion from schools and public life, stop posting the ten commandments everywhere, stop putting ‘god’ on money, etc. at least that’s what I hear about.
I don’t think anti-theists need to be advocates of forcing people to stop being religious, they can simply be opposed to theism. Like I’m opposed to the smoking of tobacco, but I’m not interested in prohibiting it, I just think it’s unhealthy and the world would be a better place if there was less of it. I think that’s how many anti-theists feel about religion. At least that’s the impression that I get from talking with them.