Comment on How do people in this day in age become nazis/neonazies sexist or even incels when there is so much knowledge against it? Do they get anything out of being that way?

WhyFlip@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• Cracks_InTheWalls@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s a term that’s taken on some additional baggage/meaning. Originally it simply meant someone who was involuntarily celibate - wants to have sexual relationships, but doesn’t. Now it usually refers to someone adhering to a kind of peculiar set of ideologies around that (see: social value theories taken to some often ridiculous extremes; good ol’ fashioned misogyny/perhaps misanthropy; etc.).

  There’s a kneejerk reaction to incels in the latter sense because so much that comes out of that is pretty awful. That and it’s often folks who engage with the latter stuff who are more inclined to identify with the term incel - most others who just fit the former definition just say they’re single.

  IMO the latter usage is just more proof that we are failing and continuing to fail men, badly, in terms of community and mental health supports.

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  • WhyFlip@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Well said and agree.

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• constantturtleaction@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This sounds like something an incel would say.

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I mean, involuntary anything isn’t really a choice. It’s right there in the name.

    But the original self-professed incel was a woman, complaining that she was “unfuckable”. The term now tends to describe mostly men who feel fury at some social system that prevents them from caging a TradWife into their house, rather than the 00s era college NEET who just feels like their youth is being wasted because they aren’t getting laid.

    The cliquishness might be a choice, but the condition certainly isn’t.

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    • constantturtleaction@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Celibacy is a lifestyle choice. Wanting sex and not having it, is not what I would call “involuntarily adopting a lifestyle choice”. It is rather, like you said, the feeling of being “unfuckable”. The problem, as I see it, is that the majority of men in this position are voluntarily “unfuckable”. They are actively being unlikeable by doing things like treating women like they they should be required to like them, which in turn, makes them “unfuckable”.

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      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        The problem, as I see it, is that the majority of men in this position are voluntarily “unfuckable”.

        The original incel was a college aged woman who felt she was being rejected by all her male peers.

        There isn’t a shortage of incel women. They just don’t get the five alarm five media coverage and right wing political pandering that men do.

        Men are taught to fight one another for “prized” women, while women are taught that failing some commercial beauty standard means you doing get to have a love life.

        So you end up with these PUA communities on the guy side - insufferable horndogs constantly chasing tail - while women become hermits out of shame.

        Plenty of people in both pools are “fuckable”. But they’re poisoned into believing they can’t have mature relationships with one another by a mass media full of toxic tropes and derogatory standards.

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