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TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

Zionism doesn’t mean any of that.

Yeah except, that you are entire wrong because you just made that up. Zionism was absolutely founded on the idea of an inherent right to commit violence for the perception of something owed: specifically, Palestinian land.

en.jabotinsky.org/media/9747/the-iron-wall.pdf

Read that essay, The Iron Wall, 1923, by Zionist author Ze’ev Jabotinsky, considered to be a foundational document of political Zionism, and then lie to me again telling me that Zionism isn’t founded on political violence.

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gedaliyah@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
If you’ve read Jabotinsky, I assume you’ve also read the far better know Theodor Herzl, whose Old New Land envisions a multicultural Zionist nation of peaceful coexistence between Jews, Arabs and other peoples.

Zionism does not require violence. That’s like saying that liberalism requires violence because of the writings of the French revolution.

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- Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Herzl himself certainly did. Zionism is Settler Colonialism, Setter Colonialism is always violent. The difficulty in creating a democratic Jewish state in an area inhabited by people who are not Jewish, is that enough needs to be ‘Transferred’ so that the demographic majority is Jewish. Ben-Gurion explicitly rejected Secular Bi-national state solutions in favor of partition.
  
  Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of Euro pean imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for the newcomers. The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat. An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.
  
  Page 8, The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948
  
  10 myths of Israel by Ilan Pappe, summerized and full book
  
  Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.
  
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- TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  liberalism requires violence
  
  Liberalism required violence because its built on the principal of a class segmentation. So I’m not sure your point is the point you think you are making.
  
  Jabotinsky and Herzl are different schools of thought in Zionism, but its absolute historical revisionism to suggest that the advocate of violence wasn’t foundational to the formation of Zionist philosophy.
  
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  - gedaliyah@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    liberalism requires violence
    
    I’m sorry, but we are just not going to find common ground on that.
    
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    TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I’m not interested if you buy it or not. Liberal democracy, as in, Western liberal democracy was built directly on the back of an era of global colonialism (1500-1700). The decolonialisation of these democracies was a political afterthought, but fundamentally, liberal democracy as a modern philosophical paradigm is a direct extension of settler colonialism.
    
    Its not something up for debate, so your dissent is irrelevant.
    
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