Comment on Those books are different from how I remembered…

kibiz0r@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  deliver information to you based on an experience which can’t be physically observed or quantified

  I’m not sure if “Black Box of electro-chemistry” is necessarily the same as “Non-determinism”.

  That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren’t trivial to map or anticipate.

  That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.

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  • kibiz0r@midwest.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, I was curious if anyone would catch that. My comment doesn’t necessarily ensure free will, it just rejects a physicalist model of reality as a basis for determinism. You can have neutral monism and still have determinism.

    I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting idealist takes in response to shitty physicalist takes. 🤭

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I was just trying to embrace the spirit of shitposting

      🫡

      In that case, carry on.

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    • WldFyre@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Neutral monism just looks like “we have to have souls because the science is uncomfortable to me” but for atheists lol

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  • brrt@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That said, we contain the ability to observe and react to our surroundings which causes a large and complex web of interactions that aren’t trivial to map or anticipate.

    That unpredictablity is what we ultimately define as freedom.

    How does higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for raise the perception of freedom of said choice?

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      higher uncertainty of my choices achieving what I strive for

      More higher uncertainty of an outside observer predicting the choices you will make.

      The inability to anticipate another person’s actions suggests they may have internal agency. Compared to say, a rock, which you can shove and confidently predict where it will stop moving, a human is far more difficult to judge.

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      • brrt@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

        I don’t understand what you are getting at. You are either saying that you can predict where a fly is going to go when you set it free or you are saying that a fly has internal agency.

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• FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You could be a Boltzmann Brain.

  en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boltzmann_brain

  Of course, from my perspective, I would be the Boltzmann brain and you would be my dream.

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• merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  ChatGPT can speak about its consciousness too, but there’s no reason to believe it actually is conscious. It’s just very good at writing text that imitates text written by beings that believe they’re conscious. It’s difficult to understand how ChatGPT generates that text. But, if anybody were sufficiently interested, it would be possible to trace the entire process, since it’s just computers processing data.

  Also, MRIs can observe the brain as it does things. Currently it’s a pretty blunt tool and can only guess at what someone is thinking, but there’s no reason to assume that a much more advanced version won’t be capable of observing and quantifying the actions of every neuron in real time.

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  • yetiftw@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    that doesn’t necessarily mean it is possible though. just to be clear

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    • merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Mean what’s possible?

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