Contrarian semantics aren’t clever.
Comment on Is everyone here leftist?
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 months agoWhat, progressives are in favour of state owned utils or aren’t? Explain yourself properly.
Illuminostro@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 months ago
This isn’t about clever sementics, it’s about them not being able to define what something is.
Progressive isn’t an ideology, you can’t lump it in with leftist ideals because it doesn’t stand for anything.
Illuminostro@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeah, it actually fucking is. It’s the the name. “Progress.” Move forward. As in giving everyone a share, giving everyone a say, and giving everyone a decent life. You know, the opposite of "Conserve.’ Keeping the Status Quo, never changing, a state of perpetual stasis. The rich stay rich, the poor stay poor. Ad Infinitum.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 months ago
Progress to fucking what? Progress looks very different depending on which direction you want to progress in.
Likewise the opposite of conserve is not a fair go, that’s semantic bullshittery on your behalf.
Various forms of socialism, communism, anarchism, and other leftist beliefs generally have a set of defining traits. What sets “progressive” as different from say georgism?
IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What makes a progressive different from a anarchist, communist, or a dem soc who have defined values and beliefs?
State ownership of utilities for one.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 months ago
Yes and what about it?
Socialists would be in favour of state ownership of resources.
Anarchists and communists wouldn’t be in favour of a state.
What do progressives value about state ownership of utils, are they for it, against it?
IchNichtenLichten@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What do progressives value about state ownership of utils, are they for it, against it?
If you can’t answer such a simple question yourself, I’m not sure there’s any point continuing this discussion. Have a great day.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 2 months ago
… Riiiightio
sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Communists believe in state ownership of utilities as well as many other things atleast until the state withers away
skeezix@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Communist: a person who believes that the people should own all industry and means of production, but the government should control it. Mostly describes the economic system of the old Soviet Union. Misunderstood and widely used for generations as a pejorative term by conservatives for anyone who isn’t conservative.
Socialist: a person who believes that the people should own all industry and means of production, and the people should control it. A “co-operative” is a socialist construct.
Democratic Socialist: a person in favor of capitalism as an economic system, but with robust protections and measures against the extreme economic inequality and centralization of power that capitalism creates. Includes an understanding that we collectively are only as successful as the least successful among us. Misunderstood and widely confused with the above two definitions by conservatives.
Progressive: a person who understands that future success of society is dependent on adaptation and change, open-ness to new ideas and ways if doing things, embrasure of science and education as a means to overcome ignorance, superstition, xenophobia, and racism.
Leftist/Liberal: in principle anyone who ascribes to the above two definitions. In common vernacular also a pejorative term used by conservatives to describe anyone who isnt a hard right conservative (i.e., centrists).
Conservative: opposite of progressive; a person who wants to conserve old methods and ideals at the expense of progress and equality. Progress toward a fair and equitable society which offers everyone real opportunity invariably inconveniences and offends other people and factions. Therefore conservatives aren’t a homogeneous group. Similar to the way that ‘Protestant’ is defined by what it’s not (Catholic), ‘conservative’ is comprised of various ideals that aren’t progressive. These include religious zealots, LGBTQ intolerant, xenophobes, anti-science, anti-education, anti-democracy, fascists, nazis, conspiracy theorists, oligarchs, plutocrats, nepotists, the 1%. Basically the conservative moniker is adopted by anyone who stands to be disenfranchised (either financially or morally) by progress toward systemic fairness and equal opportunity. Interestingly, many of the factions within the conservative roundup do not have a mutual interest. For example the oligarchs are most interested in coalescing wealth and power whereas the religious zealots want a Christian state. Either way, many disparate groups within the conservative faction share a perceived persecution.
Regressive: a weaponized conservative with the added desire to roll back progress to an earlier period: i.e., eliminating reproductive healthcare, eliminating contraception, making it harder for certain groups to vote.