Comment on Why isn't jerking off more valorized as an easy dopamine hit that's also literally good for you?
SeattleRain@lemmy.world 5 months agoOkay, post some mainstream feminist discourse that says otherwise. Highly influential feminist like Dworkin go as far as saying that any sexual intercourse with men is sexual assault.
First, Dworkin has never said that and did not think that.
Second, she died almost twenty years ago my dude. Intercourse was published in '87 during the second wave of feminism. Why are you misquoting her as an example of current mainstream discourse? And even if we’re going to be talking about feminist views of the 80’s, you’re conveniently ignoring sex-positive feminism. The sex wars were like, the defining feminist debate of that era.
She did in fact say that and your link doesn’t refute that. And sex positive feminism is not sex positive for men. As I’ve said many times before I’m talking about mainstream feminist discourse. Feminist always use this tactic of digging up some progressive strain of feminism knowing full well it’s not influential.
Dworkin may have died awhile ago but her work is still regularly cites and studies by mainstream feminism and her influence can be seen in movies like the Barbie movie.
She did in fact say that and your link doesn’t refute that.
Come now. She very clearly denies saying it in the interview I linked to:
Several reviewers accused you of saying that all intercourse was rape. I haven’t found a hint of that anywhere in the book. Is that what you are saying?
Andrea Dworkin: No, I wasn’t saying that and I didn’t say that, then or ever.
If you want to claim she’s lying about her own statements, find me a direct quote of her saying it.
She did say it’s degrading and a form of contempt inflicting by men on women. In the context of the books it’s not at all unreasonable to interpret it as rape.
Regardless it DOES posit male sexuality and violence and degragation of women when it is expressesed.
Regardless that’s her influence even if unintentional and it’s all over media and culture.
Andrea Dworkin: No, I wasn’t saying that and I didn’t say that, then or ever. There is a long section in Right-Wing Women on intercourse in marriage. My point was that as long as the law allows statutory exemption for a husband from rape charges, no married woman has legal protection from rape. I also argued, based on a reading of our laws, that marriage mandated intercourse—it was compulsory, part of the marriage contract. Under the circumstances, I said, it was impossible to view sexual intercourse in marriage as the free act of a free woman. I said that when we look at sexual liberation and the law, we need to look not only at which sexual acts are forbidden, but which are compelled.
All she’s saying is that she meant maritial sex is a form of violence because maritial rape was legal, which wasn’t even true.
It’s a distinction without a difference.
This is exactly my point. This is a harsh misunderstanding at what she was getting at…
She is saying that the reality of sex for the vast majority of history has been about men dominating women, not interested in satisfying the women involved, but someone already covered that point.
Bertuccio@lemmy.world 5 months ago
“She is often said to argue that “all heterosexual sex is rape”, based on the line from the book that says, “Violation is a synonym for intercourse.” However, Dworkin has denied this interpretation, stating, “What I think is that sex must not put women in a subordinate position. It must be reciprocal and not an act of aggression from a man looking only to satisfy himself. That’s my point.”[1]”
Second paragraph on wikipedia…
SeattleRain@lemmy.world 5 months ago
But she posits that patriarchy is all encompassing and subordinates all women. Even the feminist that wrote the forward said that’s what she meant.
Numerous feminists have said they interpreted that way. It’s hard to take her denial seriously given the context of her book and the rest of her writings.
Bertuccio@lemmy.world 5 months ago
“She didn’t actually say what she said in the book. Or what she said in multiple interviews. She really said whatever dumb strawman I want to make up.”