Comment on Lots of times the restaurants won't even have milk

• beardown@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

  Alcohol has been an essential facilitating element of human socialization in every human civilization since Mesopotamia

  Which is cool

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  • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

    Human sacrifice was also pretty popular for a pretty long time, as was autocracy. Obviously alcohol isn’t that bad, but it’s not a good argument on it’s own.

    Also, factually inaccurate. I’m not sure how much evidence of alcohol there is in the new world civilisations, and Islam, which forbids it, has been around for a millennia and a half.

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    • InternetPerson@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

      Alcohol isn’t that bad, obviously, if bad at all,

      Depends on what you understand by “bad”. Regarding health, it certainly is.

      No level of alcohol consumption is safe for our health

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      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

        Yep. It also causes a lot of social disorder and addiction. The argument for is that people like it.

        If it wasn’t clear from context, I meant socially or ethically.

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    • beardown@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

      You can’t ban something unless it exists and is a part of your society. Alcohol existed prior to Islam in Arabia and still exists there today. Legal Prohibitions do not cause a substance to disappear.

      Alcohol is just fermented grain. Everyone had grain. Therefore everyone had alcohol. Including the Americas

      So yes, there is evidence of alcohol consumption in the New World prior to European contact. Indigenous peoples in various parts of the Americas developed fermented beverages from local ingredients long before Europeans arrived.

      1. North America: Various tribes produced alcoholic drinks from berries, maize, and other native plants. For example, the Apache made tiswin from corn, and the Chicha was popular among many tribes in North America.

      2. Central America: The Aztecs brewed pulque from the sap of the agave plant. This drink was not only consumed for enjoyment but also held religious significance.

      3. South America: Chicha, a beer made from maize, was widely consumed across the Andean region. This beverage was integral to social and ceremonial functions.

      These indigenous beverages varied widely in production, ingredients, and cultural significance but demonstrate that alcohol consumption was indeed present in the New World prior to European contact.

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      • CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

        Fair enough. It looks like pulque, at least, was recorded as not being used recreationally, which is probably what I was remembering, but even that I doubt, just based on human nature.

        It’s still highly unlikely Alpharabius ever discussed political philosophy over a beer. There might have been local Jews that could supply it, but the cultural taboo would have long since been totally integrated. It wasn’t ye olde prohibition or something. And it’s still not supported that drinking is objectively, universally desirable in some aesthetic sense, which is kind of what “it is cool” suggests in the original context.

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      • OozingPositron@feddit.cl ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

        Chicha can be made from any fruit with glucose in it, it’s basically another word for alcohol.

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    • OozingPositron@feddit.cl ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

      youtu.be/gK4DMt8ARyU

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  • InternetPerson@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

    Which is cool

    I disagree for health and a bunch of other reasons.

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    • beardown@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

      There’s a loneliness epidemic and low alcohol consumption rates are a contributor to that

      Getting drunk and then talking to a bunch of people you don’t know is how people meet people. That’s an essential and long running aspect of human socialization.

      If you regularly talk to new people and make friends in other ways then that’s fine. But clearly the majority of Lemmy/Reddit users aren’t doing that. And young people in general aren’t doing it either. Meeting strangers irl and chatting them up is how you make friends and alcohol facilitates that

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      • InternetPerson@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨years⁩ ago

        There’s a loneliness epidemic and low alcohol consumption rates are a contributor to that

        Are they? Sincere question, haven’t read a report or something like that on that topic.

        Regarding the remaining part, I understand how you see that. Seems logical. However, I would claim that this is more of a problem in societies mindset itself and less one tied to alcohol consumption. If people are raised in a way that they learn how alcohol is necessary, and don’t learn other ways, if it’s even incorporated in the particular culture of a society, then it’s not surprising that those people have a hard time finding new friends.
        There are plenty of counter examples, e.g., look at other cultures where alcohol is even forbidden or at least its consumption clearly discouraged. Even in western cultures there are plenty of people who found and prefer other ways. But sure, may of course not be the majority yet.

        Regarding a loneliless epidemic, I guess there is also a lot more to it than alcohol consumption alone. For example I have picked up on smartphone usage / social media consumption as related on that. (Which is a very superficial statement now, I haven’t read up on that.)

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